Another dog tragedy

Wow - 9 pages of comments on dog behaviour - it rather underlines the UK's obsession with pets, and dogs in particular. I recently read that double the number of UK households (some 13m) now own a dog than was the case 10 years ago and this is certainly evident whenever you go out anywhere these days. It seems that many people feel their family is not complete unless they have a dog and really have no clue about what owning one will entail. A licence which confirms a new dog owner has taken a training course would seem to be a logical first step, and better legislation on when and where dogs should be kept on a lead. I walk regularly on the beach and do not want dogs sniffing round me, jumping up at me with muddy paws and, worst of all, cocking a leg over my rucksack as I sat on the sand. Anyone who allows their dog to run free and it doesn't come when called, is not a responsible owner. And dog owners, please never, ever, say "He's only being friendly" or "He wouldn't hurt a fly" .... otherwise I might just get my grandchildren to sniff, jump or pee on you!

twiglet77

My local Facebook is always full of people asking for recommendations for dog-walkers. Most of those recommended respond that they’re full. Then a desperate owner,8 whose dog is destructive or dirty when left all day, will engage anyone they can find. As I said, it’s a money making exercise for some people who certainly aren’t the sort of person I’d trust my dog to. When I did work full time, years ago, a friend who only worked mornings came to collect mine at lunchtime, walked them with her collie, played, trained them, gave them lots to think about, then took them back to hers until I got home from work to collect them. Back then, in the 1980s, I don’t recall anyone dog-walking as a nice little business.

We were looking for a walker for my Mum's elderly boy when she moved down from Yorkshire last year to be near me. In Yorkshire she paid a lovely lady who came most days and took him out on his own and played with him for an hour for £5.

Down in Wiltshire, it was £10 for 30 minutes. She's a pensioner and just cannot afford that, so at 87 she takes him out herself in the weather we have been having recently, which worries her but she has no choice as there isn't a garden she can just let him out into. The cost difference between the lovely house with large garden she had in Yorkshire only allowed her to get a flat here sadly ....

Aveline

I'm very wary of Jack Russell's! However these ghastly tough dogs are very scary. As suggested brain transplants for the pathetic men that feel they have to have one is the ideal option.
When I first saw this in the news my immediate thought was that the victim was one of those dog walkers I see with seven assorted dogs on leads. Then realised that that sort of dog belongs to people who care about their pets and are most unlikely to have one of those overbred fighting dogs.

That was my thought too - and I still think that may well be the case, that it was a pack being walked whilst owners are at work. It would only take 1 of them to pile in and as they are pack animals, the others who may well usually never ever put a foot wrong could have followed suit? May never know the full facts unless the witness actually saw what happened?

Agree, Jacks can be very loyal and lovely, but some, being terriers can be little sods! My Mum has an elderly Jack who is absolutely lovely with people, kids etc, but hates other dogs, so we have to be careful with him ....!

My local Facebook is always full of people asking for recommendations for dog-walkers. Most of those recommended respond that they’re full. Then a desperate owner,8 whose dog is destructive or dirty when left all day, will engage anyone they can find. As I said, it’s a money making exercise for some people who certainly aren’t the sort of person I’d trust my dog to. When I did work full time, years ago, a friend who only worked mornings came to collect mine at lunchtime, walked them with her collie, played, trained them, gave them lots to think about, then took them back to hers until I got home from work to collect them. Back then, in the 1980s, I don’t recall anyone dog-walking as a nice little business.

Too many times I see ‘professional’ dog walkers out in the forest with up to 6 dogs, this should be legislated against as the dogs when in a group like this behave as the “pack animals” they are.

From what I understood the woman who died was a dog walker walking about 8 dogs at the time, none of which was considered a dangerous breed. However, a pack of dogs will act like a pack and it's terrible that this poor woman was seen as a potential threat to the pack hierachy.

Perhaps it's time that all dog walking services were licenced and a limit placed on the number of dogs from different homes being exercised together.

Dog walkers have their place but walking so many dogs of such different sizes is ridiculous. Walking an eleven stone dog the leonberger, presumably as strong as a man, with 2 tiny 10 lb dachshunds how on eaerth would either get a good walk. Even walking my 2 grand dachshunds [same age and sex]is not easy as one loves to run ahead the other wants to bumble along sniffing everything she passes, even stopping for a poo, the other one needs to be reined in so the other one can do it and then I have to pick it up.... how does that work with that many dogs, and this after I assume a lengthy trip in a van to pick all those dogs up.
There is potential for any dog however sweet-natured to nip if in pain and I'd not have them on their own with a baby or toddler just in case, for their protection as well as the protection of the small people, who could seriously hurt a small dog being rough. Neither of the granddogs has bitten or even nipped when a pup. They do have occasional arguments but only between themselves and they read the body language and back off. A friend's dog of uncertain background sadly had to be put down; it very slightly raised its lip at me and I was told, he's ok, so unwisely I did and he did snap, didn't bite, he was trying, wish I'd trusted my instincts. It was a dog who had I presume in a previous life been punished for warning growls, growling is communication, the dog is saying I'm not happy, so she was missing subtle signals. How can you see subtle signals with so many dogs I wonder
It sounds like there was some tangling of leads, maybe a fall, panic with the dogs, and no way for a scared dog to remove itself from a frightening situation [as if being walked with so many other dogs was not frightening enough]
DD's other dog, a small old half-blind terrier was savaged by a pair of husky dogs being walked by the owner's daughter, they were so strong she couldn't hold them back, it happened so fast I couldn't do anything. Not huge dogs but as they are bred for pulling people around the arctic for days on end so very strong. Vet told the story of another such dog who had mutilated and killed a large dog [Poor little dog had to be put down because of the broken bones.]
A friend once told me that in her part of London, a lot of would-be tough guys got a certain type of dog because knives were illegal and that sort of dog wasn't. But these weren't dogs you'd expect to be savage like them

Washerwoman

I have worked with dogs and DCs have a dog so I have at times walked our two with theirs but all are very well socialised and trained. This however was far too many dogs to control on or off lead.It is tragic.A lot of news reports are focusing on the Leonburger and they are huge heavy dogs.But my experience is the larger breeds aren't necessarily the worst.The dogs as likely to kick off a frenzy are often the smaller ones.And if as reported she stumbled or fell that will have prompted a fearful reaction. I believe their were two dachunds and not meaning to offend any fans of the breed I knew a pair that were extremely reactive and snappy and indeed one bit me.The other times I was nipped was a cocker who had the 'rage ' that some single cockers were prone to and a jack Russell.
Apparently this lady was seen a few days earlier bundling a lot of dogs into the boot and seats of her car and panicking as she had lost a puppy.Simply too many dogs and some of them were probably stressed from the outset if transported en masse like that.Any responsible dog walker should have a fully kitted out vehicle with safe ,separate space for each dog.Some do but just today I have returned from my local woods and seen a hatchback turn up with 5 dogs all crammed in the small boot.Plus 2 on the back seat.Before the walk begins they are all on top of each other.Madness.

The lady I got my dog from also breeds Dachshunds. Her bitch killed a rat the day before she gave birth to a litter of puppies. They are feisty little dogs and they’re very popular at the moment: I’m sure people up them not realising that they’re proper little hunting dogs. I’d be more wary of a Jack Russell or a Dachshund than I would be of a Leonberger. I once leafleted someone’s house and when I got back to my car I realised my legs were bleeding because two Jack Russells had bitten the backs of my legs.

I did write about a Leonberger that I’d seen in a tv programme a few years ago but I didn’t post it ( it’s why I was familiar with the breed). DH has just told me that the dog involved in the attack was the one in the programme. People were advised on which breed of dog to get and a woman was advised to get a Leonberger. I’m pretty sure she lived in a flat so I was surprised at the time that she was advised to have such a large dog. It seems to me that this has been a tragic accident that should never have happened. Something needs to be done to stop this happening again.

Iam64

Agreement with germanshepherd and blondiescott. Secure, well cared for dogs can cope with occasionally being left slightly longer. Rescues shouldn’t be left

Puppies - I’m astounded by the number of people on the spaniel Facebook groups who think it’s ok to work full time with a puppy. It isn’t.

It's the same on the Lab groups I'm on. People see these cute little puppies and have no idea of how much hard work you have to put in to turn them into well-trained, well-socialised dogs. Leaving a puppy along for long periods of time is simply asking for problems. No wonder these poor animals end up being dumped at rescue centres - or worse!

I have worked with dogs and DCs have a dog so I have at times walked our two with theirs but all are very well socialised and trained. This however was far too many dogs to control on or off lead.It is tragic.A lot of news reports are focusing on the Leonburger and they are huge heavy dogs.But my experience is the larger breeds aren't necessarily the worst.The dogs as likely to kick off a frenzy are often the smaller ones.And if as reported she stumbled or fell that will have prompted a fearful reaction. I believe their were two dachunds and not meaning to offend any fans of the breed I knew a pair that were extremely reactive and snappy and indeed one bit me.The other times I was nipped was a cocker who had the 'rage ' that some single cockers were prone to and a jack Russell.
Apparently this lady was seen a few days earlier bundling a lot of dogs into the boot and seats of her car and panicking as she had lost a puppy.Simply too many dogs and some of them were probably stressed from the outset if transported en masse like that.Any responsible dog walker should have a fully kitted out vehicle with safe ,separate space for each dog.Some do but just today I have returned from my local woods and seen a hatchback turn up with 5 dogs all crammed in the small boot.Plus 2 on the back seat.Before the walk begins they are all on top of each other.Madness.

This sad case would not have been preventable by licensing, microchipping, responsible breeding, or any regulation other than restricting the number of dogs a professional walker can take out at one time. It’s a rapidly growing business and some “walkers” are making a great deal of money taking large numbers of dogs out together. There are some around here, six or eight dogs each, sometimes they meet on the Heath and two women will be chatting while 16 dogs do their own thing, and they’re charging £12-£15 per hour, per dog. The dogs aren’t getting education or enrichment, just reinforcing pack behaviour, and for a cautious or nervous dog it’s hell. There are others who collect their van load from various homes and give them a brief outing to run about and relieve themselves, even in the heat we had last summer, again there is no enrichment for the dogs, and their owners probably think they’re being kind by having someone walk the dog while they’re out all day.
This young woman simply had too many dogs and that’s nobody else’s fault but hers.

Agreement with germanshepherd and blondiescott. Secure, well cared for dogs can cope with occasionally being left slightly longer. Rescues shouldn’t be left

Puppies - I’m astounded by the number of people on the spaniel Facebook groups who think it’s ok to work full time with a puppy. It isn’t.

Germanshepherdsmum

In my experience, dogs thrive on human company. It’s cruel to leave a dog alone all day and pay someone to walk it. They need far more than exercise. I would like to see a ban on sale of dogs other than by registered breeders or via registered rehoming charities.

I totally agree with that. I understand that people may need to leave their dog longer than usual on occasion, but to routinely leave a dog alone all day isn't right. They are very sociable animals, and I think some people often forget that they not only need physical exercise, but also mental stimulation too.

Wow! Thats the way to do it grandtanteJE65

I don't know how well it works, but here in Denmark certain breeds have been banned, so you may neither legally own one, nor breed them.

All dogs bred in Denmark must be registered in the national registry for dogs before they are 8 weeks old. and either be microchipped or have an ear tattoo carrying their identification number, so police, vets and customs officers can check ownership. The registry sends a certificate to the dog's owner, and if ownership is transferred the new owner details are sent to the registry. Dog tags carrying the name, address and preferably telephone number of the owner must be worn by the dog at all times.

Dogs must be kept on a lead, when not on the owner's premises, and may only run free on designated, clearly marked areas.

Dog owners are liable to fines if their dogs are not registered correctly, and if they are off the lead in public, except in the designated areas.

Owners must insure their dogs against damage caused by the dog. A dog that attacks a human will normally be ordered to be destroyed ,

Dogs bred and bought in other countries, may not be brought into the country before they are microchipped and fully vaccinated against distemper and rabies and a subsequent blood test has shown that the dog is fully protected against rabies.

An EU pet passport is mandatory for dogs, cats and ferrets when crossing borders anywhere within the EU. Animals from other countries are subject to stricter regulations, usually passport plus inspection by a vet at the port, airport or border crossing used.

In Germany, the rules for vaccination are similar to ours, but dog owners must attend dog-training classes with their dogs, run by the police upon acquiring a new dog. Permission to keep a dog can be refused if either the animal or the owner proves unsuitable.

Just what I think too. There was a report that the leads got tangled, which wouldn’t surprise me. That would panic the dogs and smaller ones may fear that the larger ones will trample them, and act defensively.

I think a lot of you are making wild inferences re this latest case. The dogs concerned were normal pet ones - a cockapoo, dachshund, spaniels etc., not the sort kept for security etc. The only big one was a leonburger, and even then isn't a breed known for being vicious. It sounded more as if something went wrong between the dogs (all on leads) and the poor lady got the very worst of it.

Downright stupid, not just risky.

I've seen dog walkers on the heath with about twelve dogs each, all breeds and sizes. The smaller dogs are dodging about trying not to get trampled, the dog walker doesn't stop so the dogs can't sniff around and enjoy a natural walk, and as for picking up after them - impossible, as the object seems to be to drag along as many dogs as possible as quickly as possible, return them and collect the fee for 'walking'. This simply should not be allowed; it is possible that one or more of the dogs might get trodden on, they must all be fairly stressed at this treatment, and it's not hard to see how it could get out of hand. I am making no comment about the recent ghastly incident as none of the circumstances are known, but there should be a legal limit to four dogs - I have tried to walk three, as an experienced and lifelong dog owner, and it is not easy. I would never do it again as there is no enjoyment for the dogs either.

Having read the newspaper report about this awful incident it seems the lady who died was a professional dog walker and was out with about seven dogs which included two dachshunds, one St Bernard/Newfoundland cross and various other everyday breeds, none considered dangerous. However, any dog can become dangerous if something spooks it and then the others in the group join in. They are pack animals. According to the report two horse riders came upon the scene and the woman being attacked shouted at them to get back. One if the horses bolted, throwing its rider, another woman tried to help and was also bitten. Her dog was also taken away by the police. That’s all I know but it seems that walking such a large group of dogs can be risky.

I read that the lady who was attacked was a dog walker and that all 7 dogs were with her. Very sad.
Perhaps there should be a limit on how many dogs can be taken out by dog walkers, seven seems excessive to me.

Possibly the dogs panicked and one attacked another and so on - and she unwisely tried to separate them. It isn’t necessarily the case that any of the dogs intentionally went for her. Anyone who has tried to intervene in a dog fight will know how risky that is.

There seem to be a lot of dog walking businesses at present. Perhaps there should be a limit of one person can only walk 2 dogs at a time. Of course we don't really know what happened on this occasion, but I wouldn't like to try to control 4 dogs at one time. Especially dogs I wasn't particularly familiar with. So sad.

She was a dog walker with 7/8 dogs. Far too many ! Pack instict ! She fell and for some reasons the dogs must have panicked and attacked her. None of which were dangerous breeds !