Is it OK to break the law if you are a Tory?

I don’t know what you mean Fp. The post was about wealth addiction. I was not addicted but of course some people are. It isn’t a crime to want to amass wealth. It is nothing to do with closing eyes to wrongdoing. You only aid and abet if you knowingly assist someone to commit a criminal offence. I hope this isn’t turning into bashing highly paid professionals who do not engage in criminality, simply because they are high earners.

ronib

Germanshepherdsmum

Not all partners in Magic Circle firms.

Does that mean only some?

Which ones GSM? Please explain.

What about those who are not- but are fully aware of those who are? At what point does closing eyes to wrong-doings becomes aiding and abetting (sp?) ?

ronib

Whitewavemark2 my brother was a very experienced inspector of taxes and he wasn’t corrupt.. so does the comment it all stinks apply across the board? Does it stink? Or are you, along with most on this forum not in possession of the full facts? It’s so easy for the movers and shakers to really spin it.

I am not saying that HMRC is corrupt!

What I am saying is that the whole episode stinks.

Don’t make too many assumptions about my past employment, and ignorance of the system.

growstuff

ronib

Growstuff there’s a lot more stuff going on in the world than repeating endlessly that a government minister has paid his tax bill. All credit to him for getting up and founding a successful company and all the better for his contribution to the tax pot which is very much larger than our contributions here. Just think of all the teachers he has funded!

Maybe it’s getting tedious?

Oh dear! I'm well aware that there's a lot more going on in the world!

That doesn't mean that this should be swept under the carpet.

Not once have I criticised Zahawi for founding a successful company. All I'm saying is that he hasn't been entirely honest about his own tax affairs. If he's made a genuine mistake, all he has to do is to apologise and explain what happened. If he really didn't owe the money, it seems strange that he's voluntarily paid up.

If he's acted legally, there will still be people who think offshore arrangements are immoral. It's up to the government to change the law. As we live in a democracy, it's up to his constituents to make their feelings clear - and I hope they will. Ultimately, voters do have the power to influence how their country is run and they should be aware of the behaviour of people they elect.

Zahawi was (briefly) Chancellor and was in a position to affect the lives of every single one of us. We have the right to elect people who will behave morally.

Couldn't have said it better, thanks. This, end of!

There is NOTHING wrong at all in being very successful, building a very sucessful business/financial portfolio, etc, etc.

But if and when you do - you pay your taxes. Quite simple, really.

This even more so, if you are in Governement!

Germanshepherdsmum

Not all partners in Magic Circle firms.

Does that mean only some?

Whitewavemark2 my brother was a very experienced inspector of taxes and he wasn’t corrupt.. so does the comment it all stinks apply across the board? Does it stink? Or are you, along with most on this forum not in possession of the full facts? It’s so easy for the movers and shakers to really spin it.

Money and greed are at the root of all that is going wrong with this country. If those with wealth gave their financial support to those who truly care, the whole system would be run for the benefit of us all. Instead of which, everyone is self-serving and out to put their own interests first.

Not all partners in Magic Circle firms.

MaizieD does wealth addiction extend to partners in Magic Circle law firms?

Where do you start with this concept? Footballers, celebrities, or lawyers and accountants?

ronib

Well then MaizieD just think how happy we are to hear that he has paid about £4 million or so back into the Exchequer. More than we have given over a lifetime. Amply reimburses £6k for heating his stables.

Doesn’t mean that we don’t have an ever widening gap of the very wealthy and the poorest which at Davos even the super rich have called out.

Inland revenue has very competent tax inspectors and it is unlikely that they have settled taxes wrongly despite the constant hammering away to say that they have.

However competent HMRC don’t forget that they are restricted both by resource, politics and the various regs.

What has made me very suspicious is the fact that theses cases generally/always take for ever to resolve, and yet this case seems to have been sorted in a few months.

It all stinks.

ronib

Growstuff there’s a lot more stuff going on in the world than repeating endlessly that a government minister has paid his tax bill. All credit to him for getting up and founding a successful company and all the better for his contribution to the tax pot which is very much larger than our contributions here. Just think of all the teachers he has funded!

Maybe it’s getting tedious?

Oh dear! I'm well aware that there's a lot more going on in the world!

That doesn't mean that this should be swept under the carpet.

Not once have I criticised Zahawi for founding a successful company. All I'm saying is that he hasn't been entirely honest about his own tax affairs. If he's made a genuine mistake, all he has to do is to apologise and explain what happened. If he really didn't owe the money, it seems strange that he's voluntarily paid up.

If he's acted legally, there will still be people who think offshore arrangements are immoral. It's up to the government to change the law. As we live in a democracy, it's up to his constituents to make their feelings clear - and I hope they will. Ultimately, voters do have the power to influence how their country is run and they should be aware of the behaviour of people they elect.

Zahawi was (briefly) Chancellor and was in a position to affect the lives of every single one of us. We have the right to elect people who will behave morally.

MaizieD I am impressed with your argument. Very good indeed .
Much better subject to go with.

I'd be happier to hear that he'd sucked less out of the economy to start with.

I'm not in the least impressed that the 'super rich' have called out the ever widening equality gap. They created it in the first place and I doubt they have any intention of changing their addiction to wealth acquisition in oder to do anything meaningful to change it. Reverence for wealth and a firm belief in the supremacy of 'the market' will take aeons to shift.

Well then MaizieD just think how happy we are to hear that he has paid about £4 million or so back into the Exchequer. More than we have given over a lifetime. Amply reimburses £6k for heating his stables.

Doesn’t mean that we don’t have an ever widening gap of the very wealthy and the poorest which at Davos even the super rich have called out.

Inland revenue has very competent tax inspectors and it is unlikely that they have settled taxes wrongly despite the constant hammering away to say that they have.

ronib

Growstuff there’s a lot more stuff going on in the world than repeating endlessly that a government minister has paid his tax bill. All credit to him for getting up and founding a successful company and all the better for his contribution to the tax pot which is very much larger than our contributions here. Just think of all the teachers he has funded!

Maybe it’s getting tedious?

As taxation doesn't fund spending your admiration for a man who sucks state issued money out of the economy and squirrels it away where it is doing nothing to benefit anyone is entirely misplaced. (not even himself, being too tightfisted to spend his own money unless forced to. Remember him claiming parliamentary expenses, public money, for heating his stables?)

Reading the thread on the avaricious care home magnate had me musing on the contradictory nature of people's strange support of the wealthy. One minute they're applauding the acquisition of wealth by whatever means, the next minute they're condemning it... 🤔

Growstuff there’s a lot more stuff going on in the world than repeating endlessly that a government minister has paid his tax bill. All credit to him for getting up and founding a successful company and all the better for his contribution to the tax pot which is very much larger than our contributions here. Just think of all the teachers he has funded!

Maybe it’s getting tedious?

ronib

Whitemark2 I have just woken up thanking my lucky stars that I don’t live in Scotland under the SNP.

Did we ever have normal times?

What does that have to do with Zahawi's tax?

Whitemark2 I have just woken up thanking my lucky stars that I don’t live in Scotland under the SNP.

Did we ever have normal times?

This is what I mean when I say that we do not live in normal times

“our last 3 chancellors...

1) Javid exploited non-dom tax loophole

2) Zahawi to pay millions to HMRC to settle tax dispute

3) Sunak refuses to say if he has benefited from wife’s non-dom status”

Germanshepherdsmum

I think people are biased because of who he is.

I have already said that I have never particularly liked him, but I accord him the same benefit of the doubt as anyone else. None of us knows the facts of the matter. Everyone is merely speculating. I have no idea of the facts. Nor does any other poster.

My last word on this.

If you mean that I expect certain behaviour from our elected politicians, and in particular ministers of the U.K. , then the answer is a resounding YES. To that extent I am biased.

There is no doubt that HMRC have investigated Zahawi. There is no doubt that he appears to have employed a third rate advisor.

IMO all politicians should be entirely transparent over their tax affairs. There is far too much smoke and mirrors out there. There is also no doubt that Zahawi has tried threats to prevent this information coming to the attention of the voter, and has used so called libel lawyers to issue these threats. Threats which he knows can never be followed through.

You probably did not read the link above.

''And so is the Balshore arrangement. The more I think about the structure, the less it looks like tax avoidance. The problem is, there are lots of rules that stop you simply giving your shares to an offshore trust, and then taking money from the trust.4 HMRC aren’t that dumb. You’ll end up paying the tax. The structure only saves tax if you keep everything hidden from HMRC. But if Zahawi did that, then he wasn’t avoiding tax at all… it was simple tax evasion. ''

Maybe not all Tory politicians but the party is so corrupt that mud sticks even to the few who may not be corrupt.

We DO KNOW he LIED. And he is a Minister of the Realm.

varian

Laws that apply to us ordinary folk, clearly do not apply to Tory politicians.

They don’t apply to anyone who knows how to work the system, whatever party or even no party at all.
Just checking on the generalisation / exaggeration front;
Is that all Tory politicians?
And you know that’s true because . . .

I think people are biased because of who he is.

I have already said that I have never particularly liked him, but I accord him the same benefit of the doubt as anyone else. None of us knows the facts of the matter. Everyone is merely speculating. I have no idea of the facts. Nor does any other poster.

My last word on this.