Andrew Tate

Yvette Cooper is spot on in tackling the Tate style extremism with the same vigour reserved for terrorists. This man grooms boys and encourages them to commit heinous acts against women. And he is not alone. It is high time these dreadful individuals faced the full force of the law.
Schools can try to teach boys about toxic masculinity and the dangers of grooming from the likes of Tate but society and the media must also play its part. Let's see less skimpily clad women in advertising, some of them, especially advertising perfume at Xmas, look underage. And let's clamp down on hard porn and sleazy night clubs with pole dancers etc. It doesn't mean we are trampling on anyone's freedoms, rather upholding the freedom of women to live without fear, prostitution cannot be stamped out but it can be legalised with regular health checks and security for those who work in the sex industry. I know that if this is monitored carefully and workers taken care of, with no underage workers, it can and has been less dangerous and exploitative in other countries. Certainly the dark web needs to be navigated by the authorities to track down those who post snuff videos and those who watch them.
What Tate and men like him are promoting is not just a 'boys will be boys' approach to life but a dangerous lifestyle punctuated by crimes committed against women. Many of whom die every year at the hands of men whose hatred of women is fuelled by the likes of Tate.

FannyCornforth

He has manipulated the TikTok algorithm to the nth degree.

Another tactic he employs (incredibly successfully), is to ‘befriend’ boys with healthy living; discipline; positive thinking etc.

Then he ‘seduces’ them with his cars; his glamorous lifestyle; his money.

Next he introduces them to misogyny and violence; and finally he radicalises them.

He’s not as daft as he seems.
That’s the really, really scary thing

What kind of boys do you think are vulnerable to this?

There was good discussion about him and his influence on BBC Radio 4 'The Media Show', yesterday. I thought it was very balanced. The message I took was the need for good male role models for our young men.

Theme "tines" is more appropriate than, theme "tunes". I suppose that Tate uses music incidentally and thematically to gather supporters. Quite similar to the way workers used to bring in the harvest. On the tines of a hay fork. Tines also provides some much welcome levity, in a tedious subject. Well Done.

Chestnut

It goes without saying we should bring boys up to be responsible and respectful, but how many do? How many even have a father figure of any kind in their live? They will seek one out, either online or in a street gang, and that 'father' may be teaching them all the wrong things but who even knows? Who can put them right.....

And what happens if the father is himself a bully and misogynist? Sons tend to use their fathers as role models. I've heard some boys show absolutely no respect to their mothers. Presumably, they then show other women the same lack of respect.

It goes without saying we should bring boys up to be responsible and respectful, but how many do? How many even have a father figure of any kind in their live? They will seek one out, either online or in a street gang, and that 'father' may be teaching them all the wrong things but who even knows? Who can put them right.....

Excellent post Janejudge as parents, we are responsible for how our sons behave, how they treat women (and men)

JaneJudge
Excellent post 👏👏👏

Well said JaneJudge.

Oh I'm going to say something controversial now I have sons and I have been really quite fed of the 'boys will be boys' excuse for 'boys' behaviour. It is perfectly realistic to bring up sons to be respectful men but they need to be held to account for their actions, no matter how inane. I think misogyny is rife in society and a lot of it goes unnoticed and I don;t think it is called out enough. Add in porn and an acceptance of sexual practises that are leaving young women with injuries because men think through porn those practises are normal. Well here we are. It's not women that need to change.

I will try and watch those interviews on youtube

This is a good article on him.
I’ve just listened to a program on him. One contributor hit the nail on the head. He said: he creates rage, and what does rage create on the Webb, clicks. Which basically is his business.

www.vox.com/culture/2023/1/10/23547393/andrew-tate-toxic-masculinity-qa

I think that would be managing attitudes (in a positive way), but I agree. Carrots work better than sticks. I guess some sportsmen would fit the bill.

I m not really that keen on managing attitudes. It doesnt work.
I would be looking at positive messages that work, I would be looking at Male role models (who arent rapists or violent misogynists) who can connect positively with boys.

Galaxy

I dont think it helps to just 'tell them off' though. I dont think that's what radical feminism does actually but I think there are groups of young men who have been just pushed aside and have been let down by almost everyone.

So how would you manage their behaviour and attitudes?

Galaxy

I dont think it helps to just 'tell them off' though. I dont think that's what radical feminism does actually but I think there are groups of young men who have been just pushed aside and have been let down by almost everyone.

I agree. Telling them off is likely to be counter-productive, especially if it's done by people Tate followers see as "square" (if that word is still used) or "woke".

Anybody who has had dealings with teenagers knows that it's very difficult to change their values. They're far more likely to listen to people they admire or if there's some kind of peer pressure.

That's why it's so difficult for female teachers to command any respect from teenage males who have been influenced.

I dont think it helps to just 'tell them off' though. I dont think that's what radical feminism does actually but I think there are groups of young men who have been just pushed aside and have been let down by almost everyone.

The men who are fighting back are the ones who can't cope with mutual respect. Men have historically had an unfair advantage just because they're male and they don't like losing that advantage, so hit out and blame females and anything they see as "woke".

I can understand young men feeling intimidated by radical feminists who can be quite aggressive, but the whole thing is turning into a battle of the sexes. When people start intimidating each other male v female it can't end well. Back in the old days women knew their place. So did men. Then we had the women's lib movement of the 1960s and now the feminist movement. I suppose it was unrealistic to think that men wouldn't fight back.

Galaxy, yes, his sister Janine is a lawyer in Kentucky

Galaxy It isn't just Andrew Tate who has influenced vulnerable young men. Tate has been very successful, but there are others. Tate and his ilk are the symptoms of a much more widespread issue.

growstuff

JaneJudge I think it's too late to ignore him. His influence is already out there. FWIW I think he's part of a more widespread pattern.

His influence is quite terrifying.

JaneJudge Wed 18-Jan-23 10:19:51
It is like a form of grooming isn't it?

That is exactly it.

FannyCornforth

He has manipulated the TikTok algorithm to the nth degree.

Another tactic he employs (incredibly successfully), is to ‘befriend’ boys with healthy living; discipline; positive thinking etc.

Then he ‘seduces’ them with his cars; his glamorous lifestyle; his money.

Next he introduces them to misogyny and violence; and finally he radicalises them.

He’s not as daft as he seems.
That’s the really, really scary thing

You've hit the nail on the head there. That's exactly what I was going to say. He knows exactly what he's doing - and doing it in a very clever way, and that's what makes him dangerous.

I have a vague memory that his sister works in the legal profession and describes herself as a feminist, I dont think they speak.
I think it's useful to describe what an awful man he is but I think it's quite important to also look at vulnerable young men, and why other messages dont reach them but his does.

Obviously your choice, but the interviews are fascinating although I didn't watch them all in one go! Break them down to 30 mins or less. Watching on TV is much better of course.

I hope you will persevere JaneJudge.