Sometimes I am ashamed

nanna8

But they’re just dickheads looking for publicity and getting it by the looks of things. Bunch of pathetic pinheads, you can’t judge a country by people like that.

Hear, hear. This also.

GrannyGravy13

In my opinion the SNP’s Gender Recognition Bill is a win win for all misogynists.

Except it hasn't "won". UK Parliament is blocking it. Quite rightly.

volver

I do. Most people in Scotland will. So perhaps a bit of knowledge rather than knee-jerk reaction would help your case a bit?

Did you see then (hear them?) calling for the death of women?

Get real Doodledog.

I am as entitled as you are to comment on a discussion board, volver. Trans supporters' silencing (or attempts to silence) dissenting voices is exactly the issue under discussion.

Can you read the placards?

Baggs

GrannyGravy13

In my opinion the SNP’s Gender Recognition Bill is a win win for all misogynists.

Except it hasn't "won". UK Parliament is blocking it. Quite rightly.

Yes Baggs and I think Nicola Sturgeon knew this would be the case, the SNP have used misogynists to score a political point which they think will enhance their chance of winning any future independence referendum’s.

GrannyGravy13

Baggs

GrannyGravy13

In my opinion the SNP’s Gender Recognition Bill is a win win for all misogynists.

Except it hasn't "won". UK Parliament is blocking it. Quite rightly.

Yes Baggs and I think Nicola Sturgeon knew this would be the case, the SNP have used misogynists to score a political point which they think will enhance their chance of winning any future independence referendum’s.

I think it's a negative political point, though, GG. The majority of Scots do not support the Bill.

Yes Baggs and I think Nicola Sturgeon knew this would be the case, the SNP have used misogynists to score a political point which they think will enhance their chance of winning any future independence referendum’s.

I wonder how this will play out for her. I thought it was a shrewd move, as forcing the hand of the UK govt will gain support for Indyref, but the more the TRAs behave like this, the more sensible Sunak's action will seem in comparison to Sturgeon's support of their movement.

Obviously it's a long game, but it will be interesting to see whether she's played a blinder or shot herself in the foot. Unfortunately, I don't think that the welfare of woman has influenced her in any way, though.

Which other country do you think would appeal to your grandkids, Bluebell?

That’s interesting Baggs if as you say the majority of Scots are against the Bill why were the SNP along with the necessary support from The Greens adamant about getting it approved?

Unfortunately, I don't think that the welfare of woman has influenced her in any way, though.

Agreed. And she should be ashamed of herself.

So should other politicians who let this nonsense get this far.

volver

One post from me before the massed ranks of the perpetually offended arrive.

I'm not ashamed of my country.

I'm fizzing about that pathetic person with the placard, just as I was at the moron who posted on Twitter that someone should drive their car into the counter demonstration. The police are investigating it and anybody associated with it should be subject to the law on the matter.

However does it make me ashamed of my whole country? No. Because that would be ridiculous.

This sums up how I feel too. Being ashamed of your entire country because of something like that - however disgusted you may be by it - is ridiculous.

GrannyGravy13

That’s interesting Baggs if as you say the majority of Scots are against the Bill why were the SNP along with the necessary support from The Greens adamant about getting it approved?

Good question, GrannyGravy13. I feel disenfranchised now, as while I am an independence supporter, I am having serious doubts about voting SNP, couldn't bring myself to vote Tory, and Labour and Lib Dem have no chance of winning in a UK General Election in my constituency. The last two are just as keen on the bill anyway.

Bring back the Monster Raving Loony Party, as they were a lot more sensible than some of the others are rapidly becoming.

Doodledog The TIM in your photo/post at 10.13 giving the speech is well known for his activism. He is called Beth Douglas, is a member of the Rainbow Greens and was in Holyrood the day the GRR Bill was passed (third photo).

Some people on Twitter think the person third from the left in the line-up of six in the third photo is the person holding the “decapitate terfs” banner. Others think it may be Emily Bridges, the Edinburgh University student involved in the recent event when him and other trans activists prevented the film “Adult Human Female” from being shown.

twitter.com/veritasalways1/status/1617064195144716289?s=61&t=XgfqK7m5flF9zO7yp6rSmA

twitter.com/caromitchell1/status/1617150338036793344?s=61&t=Lv-UcoPBqrp8TyBsUJA6IA

twitter.com/sresisters/status/1617020688677601281?s=61&t=gNmPDnPqO5aOCsi2Vsb2yQ

Doodledog

volver

I do. Most people in Scotland will. So perhaps a bit of knowledge rather than knee-jerk reaction would help your case a bit?

Did you see then (hear them?) calling for the death of women?

Get real Doodledog.

I am as entitled as you are to comment on a discussion board, volver. Trans supporters' silencing (or attempts to silence) dissenting voices is exactly the issue under discussion.

Can you read the placards?

Yes, I read the placards and very early on this thread I said what I thought of the people associated with them.

However I didn't try to suggest that the leaders of 2 political parties in Scotland were calling for the death of women. I didn’t try to associate a picture taken in Edinburgh of those people with a rally that was held in Glasgow. I didn’t refer to a prominent trans woman in Scotland as a “man dressed as a women”. I didn’t try to pretend I wasn’t anti-trans when my actions and language suggest otherwise.

I didn’t refer to a prominent trans woman in Scotland as a “man dressed as a woman”

Sorry, neither did you.

I see that the phrase was "man who wants to be a woman"

I’m not ashamed of my country, but I am ashamed and angry that this is the level of debate that is taking place over the gender issue. Made more so by the fact this is a councillor from the wonderful city where I live. There is a small number of people of the Jewish faith currently living in Dundee, I can only imagine how they feel reading headlines like this.

twitter.com/magigibson/status/1617265801773318145?s=61&t=iZheCnbnxFyYIesuF4_rMQ

nanna8

But they’re just dickheads looking for publicity and getting it by the looks of things. Bunch of pathetic pinheads, you can’t judge a country by people like that.

Those pathetic pinheads include MPs and MSPs, nanna8.
They might not be holding the placards themselves, but they are complicit, standing in front and smiling.

They are supposedly representing the interests of their constituents. How many of their constituents are calling for beheadings and terrorism?

I am not ashamed of my homeland, but of those elected to run it.
I agree with Calli about complicity.

Well that is scary, Call. I don’t know of them,only Nicola Sturgeon is known over here.In the long run it won’t do them any good,though and they will likely lose their seats come the next election. Hope so, anyway. Commonsense should prevail and most Scots have plenty of that !

The people I have most sympathy for are those who have been living quietly in their chosen gender for years, without causing any harm to anyone. The whole issue has become politicised (eg describing a free vote in the SG, which saw cross party support and dissent as only the SNP's 'Bill') and now embroiled in a cross border stand off. I ask people if they have ever known someone who has transitioned and the answer is usually 'NO' even though I know that there are trans people of their acquaintance - they just have not noticed because it has never caused a problem.

volver

^I didn’t refer to a prominent trans woman in Scotland as a “man dressed as a woman”^

Sorry, neither did you.

I see that the phrase was "man who wants to be a woman"

Which is true.

As we can't edit posts after sending, you altered your first accusation before pressing 'send', which seems a bit odd. Why not just not post?

Unless it was one of those 'Would the jury please disregard that last comment about the defendant being seen climbing out of the window wearing a mask' tactics?

Well, actually, you did. Your post, 9:51. My mistake, you did use discriminatory language after all.

Other pictures of the same rally show men cheering on other men who are dressed as women

(And it wasn't the same rally either.)

You may call it discriminatory language. I call it saying what I see.

There is someone who is clearly male (and there are other photos of similar situations on Twitter) being cheered on by other men whilst women are being threatened with decapitation. You can play semantics as much as you like, but it won't alter that fact. A man wants to be a woman, and is applauded by other men. Men tell women what being a woman is all about (just a 'feeling', apparently) and when they object they are called names and get death threats.

A person who is very obviously a man, dressed as a woman, applauded for his misogyny by other men, sums it up very well for me.

Doodledog

You may call it discriminatory language. I call it saying what I see.

There is someone who is clearly male (and there are other photos of similar situations on Twitter) being cheered on by other men whilst women are being threatened with decapitation. You can play semantics as much as you like, but it won't alter that fact. A man wants to be a woman, and is applauded by other men. Men tell women what being a woman is all about (just a 'feeling', apparently) and when they object they are called names and get death threats.

I agree with what Doodledog has posted - but let’s not get into another argument. As said on another thread yesterday, there is no right and no wrong, just different opinion yet to be altered by shared experience.
Less squabbling, more incisive comment I think.

That's fine by me, GSM. I object to being told to 'get real' (whatever that means) and similar, but should try not to react to goading.

I do think that placards suggesting decapitation are objectively wrong though. I can't agree that that is a matter of opinion.