Woman found guilty of raping two women. Remanded in custody for sentence end February

Second trans person approved for move to women’s prison

news.sky.com/story/fresh-trans-prisoner-row-as-girls-stalker-approved-for-move-to-womens-jail-12797405

Stalked a 13 year old whilst male.

Yes, lots and lots of counselling to undo Amy learned behaviour

I don't react well to having my words twisted though, It's a tough one

In real life easy, it doesn't seem to happen, I get on with everyone and its a strength lol

your family were as dysfunctional as mine though, weren't they? I remember being taught to be quite cruel about other people (generally around how they looked rather than their sexuality) and it was only when I met my husband and he said I was unkind about other people, what exactly did I feel insecure about that I started to consider how I was about other people myself.

I'm not saying people weren't homophobic btw just thinking of our own peer group. I'm not even transphobic though, despite what others may draw from my posts

I don't expect you were hostile to gay people Jane or anyone here...

But people were

I never came out to my own family because of their attitudes. My aunt thought gay men were pedophiles and unsafe around boys

It was awful

I'm a similar age to you VS and I can't remember feeling hostile towards gay people at all. In fact in the 90s I lived next door to a gay couple who were older than me and it was just accepted as normal. This was in a large, mixed town though. So maybe there were and are regional differences but even my Gran had gay friends (it was very hush hush as they were 'older')

The only person who has been accused of homophobia on this thread or others is me

How on earth anyone ever came to that conclusion I don't know but I won't ask what twisted interpretation of my words led there, I don't want to know the person who said it.

But I was young in the 90s and I remember my friends finally standing up and coming out and how beautiful amd freeing that was. I also remember the push back and the absolute awful things people said back then. If any gay person committed any sort of crime it was used against all gay people. People didn't want us in communal changing spaces and public toilets and saw usbas some sort of threat.

Now trans people are being held responsible for crimes they did not commit so yes it does remind me of how things were back then and it really shocks me.

As every person I've spoken to on this thread has been entirely accepting towards gay people so obviously were accepting back then... I'm just surprised the way trans people are supposed to publicly denounce or apologise for criminal behaviour they aren't responsible for.

Trans people are seen as a threat in changing spaces and public bathrooms and gekd responsible for crimes they didnt commit.

I remember how that felt

The comparisons I draw are strong

we have seen how groups have been discriminated against in the past by holding them responsible for actions of individuals,

Now we are seeing that whole groups of transgender people are having their lives impacted by the actions of TRA *groups and ‘fake trans’ or trans whose ‘authentic selves’ who belong to a group that believes they are allowed to cheat, lie and attack females.
They are the ones at the root of the discrimination you keep mentioning VS (you don’t have to answer), not feminists, with whatever letters you choose to add.
Until the actions of this group of ill-intentioned TW and their TRA group supporters brought transgender to the public notice by their mean, cheating and misogynistic actions, who caused trans people the problems they now face?

It concerns me that, not only have these two groups ruined the lives of many trans, but also
they are supported by people who refuse to condemn the actions of these two groups
and accuse anyone who dares point out the damage these groups are doing, of discriminating against all trans.
Which is nonsense.

VioletSky

I absolutely cannot believe that comparing types of discrimination and allowing that we have seen how groups have been discriminated against in the past by holding them responsible for actions of individuals, is being twisted into something else.

I'm not sure I understand this, but it seems to be referring to the fact that numerous times on this board people who have stuck to facts (eg 'you can't change sex') and pointed out uncomfortable truths (eg that 'fake' transwomen are a danger to women) have been accused of racism, homophobia and more, over a number of threads.

Nicola Sturgeon appears to be adopting the same distractionary tactics to deflect from what must be an extremely embarrassing situation - very soon after her attempt to push through her misogynist legislation, and on the back of her rather masterful stroke of backing Westminster into a corner so they had to block it, thus giving the SNP a stick with which to beat the English and simultaneous brownie points with the trans lobby, a male rapist attempts to get placed in a female prison, exposing the flaws in the plan, and showing that her critics were right all along. Oops.

I wasn't twisting anything, simply pointing out that she is not the first person to try that line of argument, and that it never works, as it Just Isn't True.

Hopefully NS’s latest U-turn will impact on this person as well.
I wonder what impact it would have if all TW imprisoned for offences against females (Committed either as men or as TW,)
were offered immediate medical treatment to remove the male parts so they had truly made a commitment to their authentic selves’ as a condition of their housing in female prisons.

It's not only women prisoners who are at risk but also female prison staff who might be required to search an intact male who has much greater strength than her.

Has my link to a Twitter post been missed, because I can't believe people won't be concerned by the proposal to move another violent 'transwoman' from the male estate to the female estate? I've found a link to a newspaper article instead of Twitter.
www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/new-trans-prisoner-storm-looms-29069314

This is a dangerous male, who would need to be kept isolated from the women for their safety, so why move him?

The Times is running Janice Turners article on this issue, Male pronouns used throughout.
I always get a bit upset when people make sweeping statements about our 'dangerous' media as I think there are some brave journalists out there doing great work.

JaneJudge
The most sensible solution is to have transgender based rights that are inclusive of their own needs and rights that don't exclude any other group.
It would have made much more sense for it to be approached like that in the first place.

And everyone who calls these two people men are saying exactly what GC feminists have been saying for years, bigots corner now seems to include well everyone. Although the fact that my 'bigotry' is now shared with Owen Jones is making me reassess everything.

People cannot interpret the law as it stands, hence why a rapist was housed in a female prison and why a paedophile was given protection in women's shelter. It isn't toxic to be concerned about that.

I read a delightful thread where a transgender female was trying to get a woman with Down syndrome sacked from her job as she didn't want a man in the toilets with her. They failed to grasp that a woman with down syndrome may have had it drilled into her how her personal safety could be at risk from a man because of her disability. So inclusion is great but there needs to sensibilities about how it excludes others

Inclusion for some minority groups will mean exclusion for other natal female groups.

Women are still oppressed by men even in Western societies, you only have to look to the US and rights on access to contraception and abortion. We do not need loopholes in sex based rights that could include men.

The most sensible solution is to have transgender based rights that are inclusive of their own needs and rights that don't exclude any other group.

How do you define a 'genuine' transwoman, and do they need to take hormones/have surgery or just self declare? Can they sport beards like Alex Drummond who became a lesbian simply by donning jewellery and stereotypical female clothing? Can they be transwomen while still wearing stereotypical male clothing?

On the subject of this thread one male gets moved from the female estate and another gets permission to move into it.
twitter.com/ShonaghDillon/status/1619293958651387904

Galaxy

I dont know what denial of transgender lives means.

Me neither.

I dont know what denial of transgender lives means.

I am proud of being a woman so I welcome genuine transgender women into the fold. I am not threatened by them.

Life is too short to remain in a state of disliking inclusion as long as people behave decently and with compassion to each other:

and inasmuch as there are "sides", (which I greatly regret, for I think there are a whole range of views not an either/or situation such as the debate nearly always ends up with atm)

I greatly abhor violent words and actions - from either. And to me, violence includes denial of genuine trans gender lives.

So toxic

/thread

GG13
Gender neutral society is a fairy tale pushed by misogynists to put women back in the kitchen and the bedroom

And some females evidently support that. and find it lol

FannyCornforth

There are no gender norms!!!
That’s the whole point 🤦‍♀️

You’re so right.
If there are gender norms, what are people rebelling against?
We’ve passed the stage of ‘boys can’t play with dolls’ and ‘all girls like pink’.
We have male chefs, nurses and hairdressers and female engineers, forensic scientists and pilots.
Except when they’re wearing an outfit for the purpose of fraud, there are few restrictions on what you can wear but. . .
Even non binary males can’t get pregnant and non binary females can.
Non binary males may have prostate cancer, but not cervical cancer.

Soooo what outfits do NB people see as non-binary clothes?
Women wearing trousers? OMG am I NB? Men wearing skirts? Scots have done that for years, and besides, wouldn’t that constitute conforming to a woman’s ‘norm’?

As you say FannyCornforth
But if you are born with a fanny you are a woman
And if you are born with a penis you are a bloke
I’m happy to point this out, knowing I won’t be under attack.

Gender norms are so seperate to sex based needs and services

It is not I that doesn't understand that gender norms can bugger off and sex based services like safe spaces must stay