Woman found guilty of raping two women. Remanded in custody for sentence end February

Do you disagree with anything in my post of last night VS?

There is an awful lot of comments that have misunderstood what I said.

I've read back and my comments seem clear to me

Mollygo

What does vs VS mean? My name is Violet.

I'm sorry but I can't get on board with blaming groups for the actions of individuals

It's not logical

VioletSky

Actually it was a question Mollygo

I'm not requesting anything apart from honest respectful discussion

VioletSky

I also want trans people integrated into society without any cost to women.

vs VS
It’s not as if anyone one on here wouldn’t agree with that.
In fact,
until the uprising of the increasing group of the following, I doubt if anyone even noticed, or gave a passing glance at TIM, or even felt the need to identify them.

TIM who took jobs specified for females for the support of females
TIM who cheat in order to deprive females of rightful awards
TIM who publicly accessed female safe spaces and used that access for their own perverted pleasure
TIM who denied lesbians the right to turn down sexual access to their bodies
TIM et al, who lost females their jobs for stating biological truths
TIM et al, who threatened very publicly to hurt females and their families or behead anyone who doesn’t support them

Until this sickening wave of TIM and TRA actions, I doubt if anyone even noticed, or gave a passing glance at TIM. Certainly I have been told that “they’ve been around for ages and you never noticed”.

Of course as I’ve said many times, the TIM actions I’ve mentioned above by people displaying their authentic selves , have damaged the public perception of trans, possibly for ever.

Many females have not been afraid to speak out against these actions, even when their attempts to do so have been hampered by violence from T&F.

Some females have supported the actions by being TRA and endorsing the actions I mentioned.

Some females have supported the actions by their refusal to join in the condemnation of those TIM, hiding behind the claims of saying they’re wrong is transphobic.

Some females have supported the actions by adding words to the title of feminist, and changing the meaning to mean something different, so they don’t have to support females against the harmful actions of some TIM.
Any polite, respectful discussion which points this out (and there have been many instances of such points being raised) is dismissed by some posters as being anti ALL trans.

There cannot be a polite respectful discussion whilst that claim, which is a falsehood, is used as a shut down.

I'm not requesting anything apart from honest respectful discussion

I’ve started an honest respectful discussion.

Please add to the honest, respectful discussion how you imagine, after all the damage done by the small group of ‘fake’ trans, that this is possible.

Doodledog

That's what I meant by data being recorded to obscure reality. We can't prove any sex-based discrimination or disadvantage when 'woman' means whatever men want it to mean.

It's not even logical is it?

The science of reasoning has just flown out of the window.

Is there not an extra 'column' in this data-entry - a "nota bene" - which indicates that this offence was committed during a period in the criminal's life when 'she' was a 'he', for the sake of accuracy?

This felon who violated two women with his penis, declares he's now a woman, and rocks up in a blond wig, a bit of 'lippy', wearing a pink puffer jacket and sporting a pink handbag. Is this what womanhood is reduced to?

That's what I meant by data being recorded to obscure reality. We can't prove any sex-based discrimination or disadvantage when 'woman' means whatever men want it to mean.

Rosie51

Just seen on Twitter that Scottish police have confirmed this rapist's crimes will not be recorded as a man's crimes, they will be added to the women's crimes. Then they use these lies to say there's no increase in male offences.

This is simply outrageous.

Bryson committed the crime as a man - rape.

Before his conviction, he self-identified as a woman.

A man rapes two women - so the crime gets recorded as one committed by a woman.

Is the world going mad?

Why are we allowing this?

I genuinely don't understand why fact-based feminists are portrayed as unreasonable or extremist.

I'm pretty sure I have never seen anyone on here say anything 'exclusionary' or discriminatory - quite the reverse, really. People go our of their way to say that they are happy to accept transpeople as transpeople, and are not bothered about how they live their lives, so long as they don't try to eradicate women as a sex.

I'd be very interested to know what people disagree with, if anything.

Doodledog would you please stop posting sensible ideas?Especially your last paragraph about language? When you post a concept that no reasonably intelligent being could refute it causes extreme distress amongst certain 'specialist interests'

Wyllow if you would like there to be more discussion of other matters affecting women, why not start threads that interest you? The balance of thread topics is in all of our hands.

Nothing unreasonable at all Doodledog.

My post is aimed at anyone with an opinion on the matter

Itronically, if anyone protested against transpeople with placards advocating their beheading or cannibalisation, they would be arrested, as gender identity is a protected characteristic and sex is not. AFAIK this has never happened though.

All that fact-based feminists on here are arguing for is that men should not be given female status, not that anything should be taken from transpeople. We keep being told that trans rights won't detract from women's rights, but if that is the case the same applies in reverse.

Opinions may vary, but for me, what this would mean in practice is that there would be men, women, transmen, transwomen and non-binary people, and everyone would continue to be segregated by sex in the situations where it is deemed necessary (most of the time there is no need for segregation at all).

Transmen and transwomen could live their lives as they wish, and at all times be legally protected from abuse and discrimination, as they are already.

The extra protection that transpeople enjoy under the Equality Act should remain, and making misogyny a crime under the Act should be reconsidered, as this would bring women into line with transwomen and give us the same rights when it comes to legal protection against hatred.

Human rights should continue to apply to all humans, as they do already.

Any 'marginalisation' should be clearly explained, so that it can be mitigated and we should work towards its elimination. Currently it is difficult to know how to prevent the marginalisation of transpeople as the term is so vague as to be meaningless.

Women should be able to feel safe by not allowing men in places where women may be vulnerable, and should have the chance to compete in their sex class in things like sport, where their biology makes it unfair for them to compete against men.

Social data should not be collected in such a way that policies and situations that disadvantage women are made obvious, by classifying people by sex and not so-called 'gender', as that obscures reality.

Finally, the language should be allowed to develop by custom and practice as it has done for millennia, and not legislated for with words and expressions being forced on people, legally or by social pressure.

What is unreasonable about any of that?

you say you want honest respectful discussion VS but when posters respond to your posts you say that their comments are all directed at you, and accuse posters of ignoring another poster.

There actually are wider issues that come from this, why would I trust what the BBC says on Afghanistan for example when they are describing this rapist as a woman, why would I trust the police with anything if they record a Male rapists crime as a womans crime.

As a Christian, Christians making death threats against gay people are not Christians and are deluded if they think they are.

You seem to be contradicting yourself VS. Because I doubt GC feminists welcome extremist behaviour or want the type of people who make threats of violence in their group anyway. So why aren't trans gender people speaking out against the trans activists?

If they don't want to be seen as being affiliated with them, they need to stand against them.

Wyllow3

I think its fair to assume that just like the rest of the population, some trans people are """Activists" and speak out on their particular situation or issue, and many simply don't and live their lives. I dont expect all people of colour to have to act as spokespeople, nor gay people, nor someone with say a religious conviction to defend or accuse those in their "grouping.

There was yet another excellent programme today on the atrocities being committed on women in Iran. There are women in this country who still suffer FGM. I sometimes wonder why so much energy is spent on trans issues on GN, the same people raising an O/P with yet another "angle", and ignore so very much else. As a feminist I feel passionately about these just mentioned issues and just get frustrated.

Also everyone is ignoring Wyllow and aiming all their comments at me

Any particular reason for this or can we include them in the conversation?

Especially as

Good night

Actually it was a question Mollygo

I'm not requesting anything apart from honest respectful discussion

Just seen on Twitter that Scottish police have confirmed this rapist's crimes will not be recorded as a man's crimes, they will be added to the women's crimes. Then they use these lies to say there's no increase in male offences.

I also want trans people integrated into society without any cost to women.

By nature all GC feminists are the same group

I still don't expect a group to denounce the behaviour of a more extreme element...

You know why?

Because I doubt GC feminsts welcome extremist behaviour or want the type of people who make threats of violence in their group anyway.

Same for trans people in general.

Same for Christians when there are factions of Christianity who make death threats against gay people or otherwise ate abusive to them

Same for any single demographic who is not responsible for the behaviour of others they want no affiliation with

Can't you see that at all?

I do denounce vile things that are said too or about anyone VS, and if I saw or heard anything vile said about trans gender people or anyone for that matter here on GN or anywhere else, I would and do call it out.

Unfortunately, the GC feminists as you call them only have to state the obvious that a man cannot be a woman, to be accused of being transphobic and worse.

VS vs
So you want all trans people, who may not be members of the same organisation or even a member of any organisation at all, to affiliate themselves with disgusting behaviour by apologising/denouncing it?

Who said they wanted “all trans”? VS

So you want all people to use pronouns demanded by anyone who has decided that they have changed sex?

That was your request earlier in this thread Mimi.

I don't understand your post VS. By their very 'nature', all trans women are members of the same group, they are all trans women and if they don't condemn the outrageous behaviour of some trans women, they risk being seen as condoning it.

They are at risk of being blamed if they don't speak out and could do so anonymously. Let's face it, the people we see waving their offensive placards often wear balaclavas and other face coverings so they cannot be identified; to be expected because bullies are usually cowards.

I'm not looking for my feelings to be soothed. I'm looking for the integration of trans genders into society which is not at the risk too, or at the expense of natal women.

It's the soothing of the feelings of trans activists that has caused this situation, and in the same way that women stood together to right the wrongs of a patriarchy society, trans people need to stand together and condemn the offensive behaviour of trans activists.

I think its fair to assume that just like the rest of the population, some trans people are """Activists" and speak out on their particular situation or issue, and many simply don't and live their lives. I dont expect all people of colour to have to act as spokespeople, nor gay people, nor someone with say a religious conviction to defend or accuse those in their "grouping.

There was yet another excellent programme today on the atrocities being committed on women in Iran. There are women in this country who still suffer FGM. I sometimes wonder why so much energy is spent on trans issues on GN, the same people raising an O/P with yet another "angle", and ignore so very much else. As a feminist I feel passionately about these just mentioned issues and just get frustrated.

OK let's try the reverse

Imagine if someone asked all GC feminists to apologise for and denounce the vile things said to trans people? The death threats, the times trans people have been abused in public etc. Do you even have an organisation a lot of you belong too? Would you expect them to be willing to do that in a publicly visible way?

FYI

If anyone ever asks you to do that, please tell me, I'll have a wonderful time explaining to them exactly how ridiculous and unreasonable that sounds