Woman found guilty of raping two women. Remanded in custody for sentence end February

Who are you asking VioletSky

So, if trans people respect women's safe spaces

Can you respect their pronouns?

Rosie51, that’s what generally happened. The Cass report criticises the Tavistock clinic’s approach in taking gender disphoria as the focus, rather than complete a comprehensive psychological assessment of the children/young people referred. Breast binding, medications were, Cass concludes, offered without the necessary detailed assessment.

Self ID, absent any outside expert involvement seems fraught with problems, even where adults are concerned.

VS Gender dysphoria is a strong feeling in your head that your internal 'sense of self' and your physical body don't match, have I got that right? That would suggest it's a psychological phenomenon that would maybe benefit from psychological help? Why jump to change the body to fit the mind, why not first try to bring the mind into line with the body? In the case of someone with anorexia, no doctor affirms the brain's interpretation of fatness with encouraging starvation diets, but instead counselling is employed.

No matter how many hormones a man takes, or how much surgery he undertakes, and most do not have any surgery, he remains male, even if he goes on to identify as a transwoman. So all transwomen are male, even if they dispute the descriptor man. That doesn't mean transwomen can't live happy lives in their presentation, just so long as they respect the very few single sex areas where they shouldn't go.

Oh gosh, we’re back to the
masculine appearing women and butch lesbisans scenarios.

VS
It's only a contradiction if you believe all trans women are actually men...

Which I don't.
I don’t believe all TW are male . . .
I know it for a fact.
You can believe whatever you like, but it doesn’t make it true if it’s factually wrong and since your belief facilitates some of those males having opportunities to harm females that they would not have if they weren’t claiming to be women . . .

Janejudge I know and I believe it is so important and more safeguarding and risk assessments need to be in place in many areas

VS you work with children where safeguarding is taken far more seriously and in open view, compared with other vulnerable sectors of society

doodledog read back, that's not what I said

I cannot possibly know if a rapist is a genuine transperson, some may very well be. Women have been violated by other women sexually.

I ask for safeguarding to prevent that occurance and for the protection of women's safe spaces anyway so...

Thank you Dickens

Yes I can see how others use headlines likes this to spread fear and hatred that impacts ordinary transpeople... and also masculine appearing women and butch lesbisans by mistake

I must have misunderstood, thank you for explaining

Of course that should never be the case

No I don't see the contradiction a man masquerading as a transwoman is not the same as a trans women who has genuine gender dysphoria and is just living her life within the law.

But that is not what I said, is it? Absolutely nobody (on these threads) is saying that transwomen with genuine dysphoria should not be able to live their lives within the law.

What we are saying is that as long as men can say they are women to access our spaces, there will be fakers who do so with ill intent.

The contradiction is when you say that that is not true, but that when someone does access women's spaces with ill intent he is a faker.

Now do you understand?

He is now going to a male prison.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64413242

VioletSky

A trans rapist should do no reputational damage to transgender people trying to live their lives.

I think you might be missing the point.

Those that are pointing out the damage are acknowledging that the discrimination against the TG community that already exists will be further fuelled by this case.

What you are implying is that those who made this point (and one with which I agree) are supportive of it, which I don't believe is the case - and certainly not as far as I'm concerned.

I think if you believe that you truly need to examine why.

I believe that the media will highlight this case - especially the tabloid element - in that faux innocuous way they report on controversial events - knowing full well they are stirring the pot. That is where the damage is done.

But what we don't do is see a whole demographic as having a tarnished reputation due to that harmful few

In the media-world, that is very much what "we" do. Or, rather more to the point, what "they" do.

The press - both tabloid and broadsheet - regularly pit one demographic against another; old against young, men against women, the employed against the unemployed, etc. This is no different... it is now called 'click-bait', and it ensures a steady stream of readership which, in turn, attracts advertisers - thus advertising revenue.

I believe this is what happens and will continue to happen.

So, what do you want me to examine - as one who has agreed with the statement that this case will undermine the reputation of the TG community who, as stated, just want to get on and live their lives?

I've given all the answers I have doodledog

I'm just an ordinary person

No I don't see the contradiction a man masquerading as a transwoman is not the same as a trans women who has genuine gender dysphoria and is just living her life within the law.

It's only a contradiction if you believe all trans women are actually men...

Which I don't

You don't have to like it or accept it but that's how I feel... and since I only really discuss these issues on gransnet and otherwise just live my life respectfully of others differing beliefs, I'm not sure what I can do other than stop bothering to discuss it here as well, thus not impacting the debate in any way

Although I would prefer to be included respectfully and politely

VioletSky

It means I'm not interested in arguments and I see no point in challenging your perceptions doodledog

It's tempting to think that that's because you have no answers to the questions that I, and others, put to you.

It's one thing to talk in the abstract about authentic selves and being kind, or to wax lyrical about how you are lovely and imagine all the people sharing all the world, but it's another to explain to people what you are actually mean.

One minute you are disagreeing with everything we say about how it is possible for a man to pretend to be a transwoman so that he gets access to us when we are vulnerable, and the next you are saying that men who pretend to be women to get access to us when we are vulnerable are not real transwomen.

Can't you see the contradiction there? It's not about my perceptions - it's about your refusal to engage with the issues on any other than a superficial level.

I have a medic friend that works in a prison. One incident related to me a few months ago was a man, in for rape, was demanding sanitary wear. When questioned he claimed he was bleeding. My friend and a nurse attended him and offered to examine him if he was bleeding from anywhere. He maintained he’d been having periods since the age of 13!! He was a fully intact male in a men’s prison serving a long sentence for raping a woman. He spent his days writing to various bodies and getting compensation for his mistreatment. Yes they did give him his sanitary items. What a waste of money and what an absolute nonsense that we’ve allowed to develop.

I'm only answering

*shrug

This thread has a topic I prefer to stick to, please stop making it about me as a person and I will stop answering

But VS if you didn’t respond, no one could post about you responses.
Whose motive are you referring to?

^ You could just stop, that's an option.^

It means I'm not interested in arguments and I see no point in challenging your perceptions doodledog

Mollygo

I tried to go away but you guys keep tagging me an metaphorically blocking the door

So I'm answering

At risk of someone saying I'm making it about me probably

You could just stop, that's an option

My thoughts and solutions aren't good enough so I figured I'd leave, what is the motive for preventing that? I see none

VioletSky

Whatever you want/need doodledog

What does that mean?

Galaxy

So are you now saying that some transwomen are men and are pretending to be women, but it's not ok for me to say some other transwomen are men because that would be transphobic.

Yes, that’s it exactly. Doodledog thank you for your clear explanations at 18.45.

VioletSky

Never mind

I'll just go away.

Until 19.04, 19.11 and 19.14.

Mollygo

I've given up discussing the subject now... unless you ask me nicely, I'm a suckered for politeness

VioletSky

Ignoring that Mollygo too confrontational for a reply

I know it means you can’t explain it didn’t think you would be able to so that’s fine

I don't read MN either

Maybe you have me muddled with someone else

MerylStreep

VioletSky
You have inferred a couple of times that because of the age demographic on GN we just don’t understand. Not your exact words.
I know you read MN so what do you make of their comments, you can’t give age as a reason, can you?

Age as a reason for not understanding something?

No way I would ever infer that. Ever. I'm not aging backwards