Woman found guilty of raping two women. Remanded in custody for sentence end February

I would be on board with any discussion about self ID and how safeguarding must be implemented to protect from any potential abuses of it and any mistakes in diagnosis or treatment...

But not if that discussion arises due to any level of discrimination.

For example, petitions against easy self ID for safeguarding reasons I would immediately sign.

What also comes with that discussion is more funding for services, more training fir doctors and better availability of support for trans people and immediate mental health support for self harm accross the board with training for all causing factors

Do we use the look into their souls technique put forward by Layla Moran, that was a highlight of the debate way back when.

If no males (regardless of gender ID) at all are allowed in female protected spaces then that is the easiest solution that will prevent a huge load of abuse. The other solutions can be worked on afterwards.

So when a transwomen says I am a women we need to believe them except when they are a man pretending to be a woman. And we tell the difference between those two how? Those two groups of people are all of the same grouo of people - men.

Smileless2012

TBF there's plenty of solution based thinking on this subject, the most obvious being that men should not be allowed to access women's spaces.

Weird because it is also me offering the solutions, not just the outcomes and denials

Galaxy

What is genuine gender dysphoria, what criteria are you establishing for that. If this man had gender dysphoria he still had no place in wonens spaces.

Given that self ID would involve no external examination at all how on earth could anybody know what is genuine gender dysphoria? Also I understand there will be no requirement for gender dysphoria to self ID as the other sex . Such a shame sex and gender are used so interchangeably, when they are totally disconnected, even if you proclaim to have both.

I thought the criteria was obvious by the context but

Any man pretending to have gender dysphoria in order to have access to victims is not a trans woman.

That is by no means saying that a trans women with gender dysphoria hasn't committed rape. I don't have any way to know with certainty.

But my belief is that any sex offenders (and some sex offenders are women) who violates another (with or without a penis) should not be housed with potential victims across the board

This thread focuses on a rapist who claims to be trans.

My focus is wider because it enables safeguarding of all potential victims and makes cases like this more easily managed without risk to anyone

TBF there's plenty of solution based thinking on this subject, the most obvious being that men should not be allowed to access women's spaces.

What is genuine gender dysphoria, what criteria are you establishing for that. If this man had gender dysphoria he still had no place in wonens spaces.

I have a very clear solution. All spaces segregated by sex. Dont pretend men are women.

VioletSky

Also putting a rapist of women in a general male prison does not protect mean make inmates are safe from rape by that offender. There are many many cases of rape in men's prisons as proof of that.

I would prefer sex offenders seperate to general population in prison.

Do you have evidence that those that rape other men in prison are incarcerated for the crime of rape? It's my understanding that young, attractive men are vulnerable to rape by prisoners who have never committed a sex crime outside prison.

doodledog I have been very clear in several comments that rapists should not be housed with potential victims. Or if I need to state it emotionally. Seriously?!? Of course a raper of women should not be in a women's prison, whose bloody stupid idea was that?

Please either reread or examine if you are assigning thoughts to me that suit you on some personal level.

The fact is that I have concerns about all the issues mentioned on this threads...

It is just that these threads seem to generally disencourage solution based thinking and cannot accept anyone who believes trans women with genuine gender dysphoria are women

This is why we can't have nice threads sadly

Yes no men in womens spaces. A Male shoplifter wouldnt be placed in a womans prison. It's not dependent on the crime they commit.

i do not look at trans women as potential rapists
I know you’ve chosen to ignore/ twist our posts on on trans people, but, this is the view of the vast majority of the population

We shouldn't put men who haven't raped, but have the equipment to facilitate this crime, in with women either, no matter how they 'identify'.

Also putting a rapist of women in a general male prison does not protect mean make inmates are safe from rape by that offender. There are many many cases of rape in men's prisons as proof of that.

I would prefer sex offenders seperate to general population in prison.

There are men in prison for raping other men and I don't believe they should be in the general prison population either so that's another prison safeguarding issue

Hang on. So men in men's prisons shouldn't have male rapists in with them, but it's ok for women in women's prisons to have male rapists in with them?

The common denominator here is that the rapists are men. They have to be, as, whatever people try to deny, women cannot rape. If anyone can explain why it should be female prisoners who should have male rapists in amongst them, I'd love to hear their reasoning.

Glad you’ve finally caught up, VS
I’m not holding my breath.

Mollygo

I don't discriminate based on unfair perceptions.

Statistically a child is in more danger of being murdered by a parent than anyone else. I do not look at parents as potential murderers.

I do not look at trans women as potential rapists.

Safeguarding should be in place for any vulnerable group but I am not going to discriminate.

A known rapist should not have access to victims, male or female.

I have no issue with known offenders losing rights like freedom of movement in public or being housed far away from potential visitors in prisons in order to achieve Safeguarding for their chosen victims

Quotes from a poster on Twitter

If it is so clear that sex offender Isla Bryson should not be, and should never have been, in the women's prison at Cornten Vale, why is sex offender Katie Dalowtowski still there?
Let us not forget, Katie D. was put into the men's prison after risk assessment - and THEN moved to the WOMEN'S ESTATE because Katie beat up a MAN!

Too dangerous for the men's estate, but just right for the women's!!

Will Isla also be moved if Isla beats up a man?

I wonder why Nicola Sturgeon only referred to "this prisoner" through the entirety of her reply. She never referred to him by his names, or "this woman/transwoman/man" or use any third person pronouns. And yet we're told it's too awkward not to use third person pronouns and 'the prisoner' wasn't even present to be offended either way.

Galaxy

Yes we know. Because they are a man.

🙄 No need for rudeness.

If he was a genuine transwoman ( whatever that may be, I thought saying the magic words was all it took) he still has no place in a womans prison.

The sex offenders register is life long as far as I am aware and a rapist should never have acces to their chosen victims male or female.

We do not put people in prison to enable them to reoffend.

People in prison costs the taxpayer a ridiculous amount of money but I'm all in favour of more premises, more staff and more safeguarding so that sex offenders are seperate to their chosen victims.

I agree Galaxy that we ended up in this situation because we pretend a group of men aren't men.

VS

A trans rapist should do no reputational damage to transgender people trying to live their lives.
Any trans or TRA or their supporters should do no reputational damage to transgender people trying to live their lives.
Unfortunately, there has been so much reputational damage caused by those who see themselves in the right,
by bearing banners about beheading females,
by issuing death threats to females, or
by insisting their ‘authentic self’ means they can rape as a man then demand to be imprisoned as a woman.
In these circumstances, the rapist (who has to be male) is doing harm to females and reputational damage to ALL trans.
I might add that I, and others have pointed out for a long time, the damage that violent, lying and cheating trans have been causing to the public perception of ALL trans. Glad you’ve finally caught up VS.