Woman found guilty of raping two women. Remanded in custody for sentence end February

Galaxy

Yes I was explaining my point of view, I dont speak for other people. We have ended up in this situation because we pretended a group of men arent men.

No, we ended up in this situation because abusive people took advantage of help and compassion given to a vulnerable group who deserve help and compassion.

The same way a child abuser will take advantage of a job working with children or entertaining children.

Safeguarding will be implemented and problems like this will get eradicated but unfortunately abusive people will continue to take advantage of any means to access vulnerable people.

Whether or not we accept teans people as having a genuine problem that causes gender dysphoria will never prevent abusive people from obtaining victims once they have decided to commit that crime.

We are still allowed to exclude transwomen with a GRC from single sex services it's just that organisations have tended to make terrible decisions with regard to this, we just need to be really clear that men should not be in womens spaces. You cant change sex and services need to be segregated by sex. If this man had transitioned years ago he still should not be placed in a womans prison.

A trans rapist should do no reputational damage to transgender people trying to live their lives

Unfortunately they will.
This particular case is so high profile it will.

HousePlantQueen

It could be worth reminding ourselves that this ghastly rapist has done a great deal of reputational damage to the vast majority of transgender folk who just want to get on with their lives

Sad but true.

As the Bill stands NotSpaghetti unless I'm mistaken, it will enable a man with a conviction of rape or sexual assault to obtain a GRC and if later convicted of another crime, would be able to go to a woman's prison even if an intact male.

Although a subsequent conviction may have nothing to do with a sex crime, the fact that one has already been committed, if they still have male genitalia, surely that would put their fellow inmates ie natal women, at risk.

And why if you believe that the body you've been born into is the wrong one, so you should have been a woman, would you want to commit rape Avalon?

I don't see how it does reputational damage to trans women either Galaxy, but does as you say demonstrate why we need segregation by sex.

Yes we know. Because they are a man.

Now going to a male prison.

Yes I was explaining my point of view, I dont speak for other people. We have ended up in this situation because we pretended a group of men arent men.

At least 3 people on this thread do think that galaxy and I'm interested in why?

Also

There are men in prison for raping other men and I don't believe they should be in the general prison population either so that's another prison safeguarding issue

There is more than one

Realistically there should be a seperate prison for that type of offender but there is probably some question of whether that infringes on their rights to visitors etc

But personally I would put safeguarding above rights as we do in many other situations

I dont think it has any reputational damage to transwomen I think it's simply an example about why we need to segregate by sex. If a ginger haired man sexually assaults someone there is no reputational damage to ginger men, you just dont put the ginger haired Male in a female prison.

Now here’s the thing if you are a transwoman then mentally would you want to rape women?

A rapist should do no reputation damage to transgender people trying to live their lives.

A trans rapist should do no reputational damage to transgender people trying to live their lives.

I think if you believe that you truly need to examine why.

I could link you to thousands of cases of mothers murdering their children... Does that do reputational damage to the vast majority of mothers just trying to live good lives?

We need safeguarding for all vulnerable groups because of harmful people this is true. The existence of harmful people is why safeguarding exists and why it is being put into place in many situations...

But what we don't do is see a whole demographic as having a tarnished reputation due to that harmful few... or there is a reason behind that that needs reflection

So legal recognition of change of gender doesn't make you a woman then - finally confirmed.

If this person were a woman 'they' wouldn't be going to a man's prison would they?

Silvergirl

I think I read that about half of transfemales in Scottish prisons only decided to transition after being charged. Trying to manipulate the system at the expense of genuine transgender people. I’m not surprised really having worked with offenders in the past. Many of them will twist any legislation to their benefit especially if we make it easy for them. Any naivety needs to be ditched.

I'm assuming that as the new bill is not yet law, it is possible for this to happen anywhere in the UK. Does anyone know?

HousePlantQueen

It could be worth reminding ourselves that this ghastly rapist has done a great deal of reputational damage to the vast majority of transgender folk who just want to get on with their lives.

I thought the same.

I think I read that about half of transfemales in Scottish prisons only decided to transition after being charged. Trying to manipulate the system at the expense of genuine transgender people. I’m not surprised really having worked with offenders in the past. Many of them will twist any legislation to their benefit especially if we make it easy for them. Any naivety needs to be ditched.

I think, like many here, that this one person is doing a lot of damage to the way ordinary transgender people who just want a quiet ordinary life are being seen.

It's very convenient that this person has suddenly (between charge and sentence) decided to change gender.

or update an existing marriage or civil partnership certificate
this should absolutely not be possible without the consent of the other partner. Nobody should be reassigned to a heterosexual or homosexual relationship without their consent.

Katie59 your brothers views are consistent with anyone I’ve known who worked with sex offenders.

Smileless2012

They have nothing to do with this particular case volver but everything to do with this ridiculous GRC Bill.

I think this is nothing to do with the gender recognition reform act, smileless
Can't say I know a lot about it but I definitely don't understand why you think this.

The gender recognition reform will allow people to update their birth or adoption certificate to their affirmed gender, to get married or form a civil partnership in their "new" gender, or update an existing marriage or civil partnership certificate and they will have their altered gender on their death certificate when they die.

There's no need for this to mean a person is to be imprisoned in accordance with their chosen gender.

Sorry Maw - I got a newsflash on my phone and posted that in a break during the meeting I'm on. I should have read back, specially as I complain about people not reading the thread

HousePlantQueen... I absolutely agree...

Apparently Nicola Sturgeon has said that he won't serve his sentence in a women's jail.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64413242

It could be worth reminding ourselves that this ghastly rapist has done a great deal of reputational damage to the vast majority of transgender folk who just want to get on with their lives.

My brother works as a “educator” in a prison, it’s medium risk so has a good proportion of sex offenders, they are the most manipulative group you can imagine. Their whole aim is to get “one up” on the system and get some kind if special advantage, declaring yourself trans is one way of doing that, a great many are just abusing the system.

So Mrs Kranky has had to back down 👏👏👏