Woman found guilty of raping two women. Remanded in custody for sentence end February

By no means all LGB people feel as you do, though, so you don't feel like that because you are bisexual, but because you are you (which is fine, but it is important to recognise the difference).

Also, you are not the only person on these threads who is LGB, the law of averages shows that there will be others. As with all groups of people, those with gay sexualities do not think as one, and generally don't appreciate someone speaking as a mouthpiece for the whole group. The same is true for transpeople, who must be utterly fed up with well-meaning people who are not trans themselves speaking on their behalf.

You may have struggled with your sexuality, but please don't assume that others haven't had similar (or different) struggles of their own. It doesn't give you the right to assume a higher level of empathy than other people. You don't know the personal circumstances of others on these threads, or of their friends and families - the odds are high that none of us has experiences that make us different from everyone else.

Here is a brief history

Also LGBT covers all ethnicities so the fight has always included them and in order to do so, their struggles against other types of discrimination are included. There is brief mention here but not everyone who fought with LGBT for equality were LGBT

There are longer histories available

But it's all the same fight to me for this reason and my reasoning is historically shown that we have never been separate. So that is where I am coming from

www.bl.uk/lgbtq-histories/articles/a-short-history-of-lgbt-rights-in-the-uk

You put things so clearly Doodledog, especially the part about false comparisons. Thank you.

OK, I can see that now you have pointed it out in friendly terms

But I do see the comparisons and because I'm LGBT, in return you must be able to understand, we face many of the same problems so we see it as a shared struggle

But you aren't going to achieve empathy by making false comparisons, particularly when they are with offensive outlooks. I would have thought that was obvious.

If I compared encouraging children to change their bodies with paedophiles because they also harm children, you would (rightly) be up in arms, wouldn't you? What you are doing with racists and homophobes is the same thing.

Trans peoples struggles are being compared to gay peoples struggles or black peoples struggles as minority groups and fights I have seen before

You don't see the parallels but I do.

And i feel as feminists you should understand this.

Instead you are going with being compared to racists even though that's not the outcome I was trying to achieve, I was appealing to your empathy, not insulting you.

This is how you can easily read people wrong

VioletSky

Well from my perspective, that's what is happening

Because I'm trying to have a conversation and the rugs getting pulled from under my feet

I get that you feel that way, but you really need to show where this is happening if you want to get to the bottom of it.

I don’t see it like that at all - from my perspective (which I am not saying is more valid than yours), people are just expressing their own feelings and opinions, but being compared to racists and homophobes for their pains, or being lectured in phrases that don’t make sense (eg ‘in the wrong body’ or ‘most marginalised’). You don’t appear to believe us when we say we wish no harm to transpeople, but we don’t.

You say you understand concerns that criminals will abuse self-id (because they are criminals, not because they are transpeople) yet you accuse us of transphobia when we don’t want to give them that opportunity on a plate. It is you who seems to change her mind about whether self-id is good or not- you can’t reasonably believe it should be allowed whilst simultaneously agreeing that it will lead to crimes against women, can you?

I do understand that you feel beleaguered, and appreciate that you feel strongly about what you see as protecting children, but the people you argue with feel want to protect them too - from what we see as the harm that comes from encouraging them to believe that they can change sex.

Finally, could you feeling that the rug is being pulled from under you be because this is not a black and white subject? People can agree with part of what you say but not all of it, so you see agreement but object to the bits where someone disagrees? Just a thought.

Well from my perspective, that's what is happening

Because I'm trying to have a conversation and the rugs getting pulled from under my feet

Twisting words and using 'malleable' statements is the same thing, no?

I don't think anyway

I haven't said anything about lying

Right, so we agree on that, which is good. That is the reason why I don't approve of self-id. Not because of transphobia or discrimination (of which I am not guilty on either count), but to protect women.

What do you think I am lying about?

To be fair I do agree, third time, with you doodledog that criminals would use loopholes to access victims

I think it's already happening

As per thread

Thank you

Actually, I think that it was someone else who used the term 'fake trans', not VS. It was used to describe criminals who pretended to be trans in order to rape women, and it was suggested that those people (the 'fake' transwomen) were so rare as to have negligible impact. The massive impact on the women who were raped wasn't taken into account, and there was something of a robust discussion about it at the time.

I know who I believe said it, but as they have not commented on this thread, I will not name them, although of course they could speak out in VS's defence if they felt inclined.

Mollygo

VS, I would look for the evidence, if I believed you would answer the rest.
You used it to describe trans. Blaming it on someone else using it first -go for it.
Since I don’t have any reason to believe you’d answer anything you don’t want to answer, I’ll save myself the bother.

No I didn't

VS, I would look for the evidence, if I believed you would answer the rest.
You used it to describe trans. Blaming it on someone else using it first -go for it.
Since I don’t have any reason to believe you’d answer anything you don’t want to answer, I’ll save myself the bother.

Oh God.

Ok, so what is it that I'm being accused of?

doodledog

I've agreed with what you said twice

You still keep saying I haven't

All I can think of is that I said that I do not blame transpeople for the actions of criminals. Which I don't.

I then said that I feel that the fact that criminals (most of whom will not be trans) are able to use self-id to access victims. You seemed to take that as a repudiation of my earlier statement, which it is not.

The two statements are not mutually exclusive, and accusing me of cheating as well as lying is below the belt, and far from being 'in the spirit of GN'.

I repeat - I do not blame transpeople for the actions of criminals.

I mean, it is all there in black and white

Demonstrated once again by things I haven't said and comments I referred too that actually exist

Why do you do this? It's not a win when you cheat

VS, I honestly have no idea what you are talking about.

What were you referring to in the fist place? Who are you accusing of telling lies? Or using 'malleable words' or 'twisted words'? And why?

They are huge accusations, and it's only fair that you back them up.

Show me where I ever said "fake trans" and wasn't quoting someone else Mollygo

And I will consider the rest very seriously

In bed in a dark room

VioletSky

It's now changing the narrative apparently

But it's rare for any question I ask to actually be thought through and answered.

No, it’s rare for any question you ask to be answered the way you want. I feel the same way about your responses.
Just the way you say others do on here,
you ignore anything that doesn’t match your POV.
You accuse everyone else of attacking all trans-which is such a blatant untruth, even your repetition doesn’t make it true.
You introduce words like ‘fake trans’ but you can’t explain how you can tell the difference between them and the real thing (until perhaps the ‘fake trans’ commit an offence which proves they are fake.)
You use ‘authentic selves’ which doesn’t really mean anything in terms of trans and certainly doesn’t mean they can change sex.
Then . . .
You change the topic 🤣🤣🤣

Hmm

If you can't guess what I meant where the errors are I will explain later but that's Ia sign of a migraine for me and I better get an early night