Pesticides praying of sugar beet

MaizieD

I fund a video of sugar beet being harvested. The enormous machine cleaned most of the soil from the beet before it was tipped into a wagon to be taken away.

I therefore assume that this machine is not in general use, or, that there was still sufficient residue on the beets for the processors to clean it off and make some money for it.

I was thinking about the impaction of the soil as I watched it, NotSpaghetti. Not only was the machine itself massive, but so was the tractor pulling it, as were the separate tractor and trailer the beet was being discharged into.

And, TBH, I thought that the small amount of leaf being cut off and left on the soil wasn't really going to make a huge amount of difference to the soil fertility or structure. (I say this, knowing how far numerous bags of well rotted stable manure doesn't go on my veg plot...)

We consider sugar beet farming good work for this area.

The machinery/ costs are enormous, but worth farming.

Not everyone agrees.

Found a quote, better expresses my view: "Beet sugar production is environmentally sustainable. Sugar beet is always grown in rotation with other field crops. Crop rotation helps conserve soil fertility and reduce levels of soil-borne pathogens and pests and thus reduces the requirement for plant protection products."

We do have to eat, workers need jobs, and we want a stable economy.

The area taken up with sugar beet is equal to all the land for growing all our vegetable crops.
We should cut back in my opinion and grow foods which are actively good for us.

M0nica you are unfortunately wrong about the soil harvested with beets being relatively little - as I said earlier.
Harvesting beets lifts four times as much soil as harvesting potatoes.

Oopsadaisy1

By selling the soil ( some for compost for potting on plants) surely they are just spreading around the neonicotinoids in the soil?

The bees won’t stand a chance

Maybe, it sounds logical but I’ve not read anything about the topsoil sold by British Sugar.

The large sugar beet harvesters are usually operated by contractors and can clear a large area quickly with much less soil damage than old machinery.
Don’t get hung up on neonicotinoids their use is strictly controlled and is probably 5% or less than previously. Their effect on bees in particular was overstated, there was no widespread slaughter of bees when use was widespread, Honey was still being produced, even in hives alongside rape fields.

NotSpaghetti

The area taken up with sugar beet is equal to all the land for growing all our vegetable crops.
We should cut back in my opinion and grow foods which are actively good for us.

NotSpaghetti The area taken up with sugar beet is equal to all the land for growing all our vegetable crops.

Generally sugar beets are rotating crop. View ^ planting in rotation.

Norah

NotSpaghetti

The area taken up with sugar beet is equal to all the land for growing all our vegetable crops.
We should cut back in my opinion and grow foods which are actively good for us.

NotSpaghetti The area taken up with sugar beet is equal to all the land for growing all our vegetable crops.

Generally sugar beets are rotating crop. View ^ planting in rotation.

Currently the area of vegetables is limited by the Labour available to harvest them.

Katie59

Norah

NotSpaghetti

The area taken up with sugar beet is equal to all the land for growing all our vegetable crops.
We should cut back in my opinion and grow foods which are actively good for us.

NotSpaghetti The area taken up with sugar beet is equal to all the land for growing all our vegetable crops.

Generally sugar beets are rotating crop. View ^ planting in rotation.

Currently the area of vegetables is limited by the Labour available to harvest them.

Thank you for that information.

Norah
The area taken up with sugar beet is equal to all the land for growing all our vegetable crops.

Not sugar beet is rotated in the same land with all our vegetable crops.
I have checked this on Google Scholar earlier today.

But you are probably right Katie - we are limited by available labour.

Just to be clear all almost crops are grown in rotation, including vegetable crops, vegetable crops are high value and soil born pests build up quickly so growers are very careful not to grow too often.
I can’t think why cabbages would not be grown after sugar beet, but you would not grow cabbages after rape because they are the same family.

Is it me, or has this discussion become slightly surreal?

Who said anything about cabbage, Katie59? 🤔

MaizieD

Is it me, or has this discussion become slightly surreal?

Who said anything about cabbage, Katie59? 🤔

Probably surreal, the discussion included rotations I was expanding rotations, if you dont think it’s relevant feel free to ignore it.

Here's an interesting article regarding organic sugar beet growing - no bee problems there:

www.low-impact-farming.info/growing-sugar-beets-without-neonicotinoids

We all need to be more aware of sugar and its detrimental effects. It is damaging to our bodies and I know from experience that once you cut it out you can then enjoy the taste of natural sugars in other foods.
But it is highly addictive and it creeps back into my diet all too easily, despite knowing what it is doing to my body.

See this video. 'Sugar the bitter truth'.
youtu.be/zXiQgTZZqPg

There is a sugar tax already in place because of its affects on peoples health but things needs to go further with education not just taxation.

I'm sure that they could grow other things in that land so that the local economy still benefits and thus eradicate the need for any of this toxic substance to enter the soil.

Philippa111

We all need to be more aware of sugar and its detrimental effects. It is damaging to our bodies and I know from experience that once you cut it out you can then enjoy the taste of natural sugars in other foods.
But it is highly addictive and it creeps back into my diet all too easily, despite knowing what it is doing to my body.

See this video. 'Sugar the bitter truth'.
youtu.be/zXiQgTZZqPg

There is a sugar tax already in place because of its affects on peoples health but things needs to go further with education not just taxation.

I'm sure that they could grow other things in that land so that the local economy still benefits and thus eradicate the need for any of this toxic substance to enter the soil.

I tried that one, too, Philippa111.

It appears that profit before health is far more important.

Farmers have to live. It’s easy to say ‘I’m sure they could grow other things’. Farming isn’t as simple as that. It’s a complex business.

The best of luck growing organic sugar beet in the UK perhaps the advocates would like to explain where the soil nutrients are going to come from. Even growing wheat requires 3yrs of soil building, then you get a low yield.

Germanshepherdsmum

Farmers have to live. It’s easy to say ‘I’m sure they could grow other things’. Farming isn’t as simple as that. It’s a complex business.

They grew 'other things' before we joined the EU and sugar beet became a profitable crop when tariffs were placed on cane sugar.

You're not suggesting, surely, GSM, that farms that grow sugar beet are dependent on a monoculture for their existence. Especially since our farming experts have told us about the importance of crop rotation...

No monoculture in Sugar Beet it’s grown once every 4 or 5 yrs.
Yes there were EU tariffs but former colonies were given a quota and supplied around half our sugar.
It seems reasonable to me to be at least 50% self sufficient in any crop.

Of course I’m not suggesting that. Crop rotation is important and has been practised for centuries. However, what can be grown on any particular farm is very much dependent on soil conditions and climate. Farmers are also at the mercy of the market. If an important crop - beet - is to be completely excluded, as Philippa suggested, then another equally lucrative crop, suitable to the particular farm and capable of being grown in rotation with others grown on that farm has to be found.

Actually Sugar Beet is not lucrative, if you have good enough soil close to a sugar factory it is a worthwhile break crop, controlling pests and weeds is very demanding so it’s a high risk crop.

Katie59

Actually Sugar Beet is not lucrative, if you have good enough soil close to a sugar factory it is a worthwhile break crop, controlling pests and weeds is very demanding so it’s a high risk crop.

Thanks for that, Katie59.

So... do we grow beet for sugar in this country, admitting that there are problems about this, or do we import cane sugar from the West Indies etc and ignore the food miles and any environmental problems that causes?

I buy British grown sugar whenever I can to support British farmers. That doesn't mean that I don't care about chemicals killing off insects.