Pesticides praying of sugar beet

Germanshepherdsmum

I wasn’t suggesting that sugar beet is a particularly lucrative crop, Katie, simply making the point that if a farmer stops growing it as Philippa would like him to do, he has to replace it with something no less profitable.

Sugar beet is not particularly lucrative.

However, in rotation with fields of other crops, it's a good source to amending the soil and resting the soil.

Best soil for beets near a sugar production facility? Beets make sense.

I wasn’t suggesting that sugar beet is a particularly lucrative crop, Katie, simply making the point that if a farmer stops growing it as Philippa would like him to do, he has to replace it with something no less profitable.

Norah

Katie59

Actually Sugar Beet is not lucrative, if you have good enough soil close to a sugar factory it is a worthwhile break crop, controlling pests and weeds is very demanding so it’s a high risk crop.

Oh.

I'll tell my farmer his profits are not what you'd find suitable. Perhaps he'd sell his farm land for housing instead.

Houses are certainly a profitable crop if you have land bordering a town or village, many diversified enterprises make money too, food production makes very little. Almost all farms now have diversified additions, even if it’s B&B in the farmhouse.

Next question, why do farmers carry on - answer, many dont, they stop farming and rent the land to a neighbour who wants to expand and spread his overheads further. Younger generations just don’t want the long anti social hours, livestock is worst because you are looking after them 24/7, arable is better because you can do other work in between to pay the bills.

Katie59

Actually Sugar Beet is not lucrative, if you have good enough soil close to a sugar factory it is a worthwhile break crop, controlling pests and weeds is very demanding so it’s a high risk crop.

Oh.

I'll tell my farmer his profits are not what you'd find suitable. Perhaps he'd sell his farm land for housing instead.

So... do we grow beet for sugar in this country, admitting that there are problems about this, or do we import cane sugar from the West Indies etc and ignore the food miles and any environmental problems that causes?

I buy British grown sugar whenever I can to support British farmers. That doesn't mean that I don't care about chemicals killing off insects.

Katie59

Actually Sugar Beet is not lucrative, if you have good enough soil close to a sugar factory it is a worthwhile break crop, controlling pests and weeds is very demanding so it’s a high risk crop.

Thanks for that, Katie59.

Actually Sugar Beet is not lucrative, if you have good enough soil close to a sugar factory it is a worthwhile break crop, controlling pests and weeds is very demanding so it’s a high risk crop.

Of course I’m not suggesting that. Crop rotation is important and has been practised for centuries. However, what can be grown on any particular farm is very much dependent on soil conditions and climate. Farmers are also at the mercy of the market. If an important crop - beet - is to be completely excluded, as Philippa suggested, then another equally lucrative crop, suitable to the particular farm and capable of being grown in rotation with others grown on that farm has to be found.

No monoculture in Sugar Beet it’s grown once every 4 or 5 yrs.
Yes there were EU tariffs but former colonies were given a quota and supplied around half our sugar.
It seems reasonable to me to be at least 50% self sufficient in any crop.

Germanshepherdsmum

Farmers have to live. It’s easy to say ‘I’m sure they could grow other things’. Farming isn’t as simple as that. It’s a complex business.

They grew 'other things' before we joined the EU and sugar beet became a profitable crop when tariffs were placed on cane sugar.

You're not suggesting, surely, GSM, that farms that grow sugar beet are dependent on a monoculture for their existence. Especially since our farming experts have told us about the importance of crop rotation...

The best of luck growing organic sugar beet in the UK perhaps the advocates would like to explain where the soil nutrients are going to come from. Even growing wheat requires 3yrs of soil building, then you get a low yield.

Farmers have to live. It’s easy to say ‘I’m sure they could grow other things’. Farming isn’t as simple as that. It’s a complex business.

Philippa111

We all need to be more aware of sugar and its detrimental effects. It is damaging to our bodies and I know from experience that once you cut it out you can then enjoy the taste of natural sugars in other foods.
But it is highly addictive and it creeps back into my diet all too easily, despite knowing what it is doing to my body.

See this video. 'Sugar the bitter truth'.
youtu.be/zXiQgTZZqPg

There is a sugar tax already in place because of its affects on peoples health but things needs to go further with education not just taxation.

I'm sure that they could grow other things in that land so that the local economy still benefits and thus eradicate the need for any of this toxic substance to enter the soil.

I tried that one, too, Philippa111.

It appears that profit before health is far more important.

We all need to be more aware of sugar and its detrimental effects. It is damaging to our bodies and I know from experience that once you cut it out you can then enjoy the taste of natural sugars in other foods.
But it is highly addictive and it creeps back into my diet all too easily, despite knowing what it is doing to my body.

See this video. 'Sugar the bitter truth'.
youtu.be/zXiQgTZZqPg

There is a sugar tax already in place because of its affects on peoples health but things needs to go further with education not just taxation.

I'm sure that they could grow other things in that land so that the local economy still benefits and thus eradicate the need for any of this toxic substance to enter the soil.

Here's an interesting article regarding organic sugar beet growing - no bee problems there:

www.low-impact-farming.info/growing-sugar-beets-without-neonicotinoids

MaizieD

Is it me, or has this discussion become slightly surreal?

Who said anything about cabbage, Katie59? 🤔

Probably surreal, the discussion included rotations I was expanding rotations, if you dont think it’s relevant feel free to ignore it.

Is it me, or has this discussion become slightly surreal?

Who said anything about cabbage, Katie59? 🤔

Just to be clear all almost crops are grown in rotation, including vegetable crops, vegetable crops are high value and soil born pests build up quickly so growers are very careful not to grow too often.
I can’t think why cabbages would not be grown after sugar beet, but you would not grow cabbages after rape because they are the same family.

But you are probably right Katie - we are limited by available labour.

Norah
The area taken up with sugar beet is equal to all the land for growing all our vegetable crops.

Not sugar beet is rotated in the same land with all our vegetable crops.
I have checked this on Google Scholar earlier today.

Katie59

Norah

NotSpaghetti

The area taken up with sugar beet is equal to all the land for growing all our vegetable crops.
We should cut back in my opinion and grow foods which are actively good for us.

NotSpaghetti The area taken up with sugar beet is equal to all the land for growing all our vegetable crops.

Generally sugar beets are rotating crop. View ^ planting in rotation.

Currently the area of vegetables is limited by the Labour available to harvest them.

Thank you for that information.

Norah

NotSpaghetti

The area taken up with sugar beet is equal to all the land for growing all our vegetable crops.
We should cut back in my opinion and grow foods which are actively good for us.

NotSpaghetti The area taken up with sugar beet is equal to all the land for growing all our vegetable crops.

Generally sugar beets are rotating crop. View ^ planting in rotation.

Currently the area of vegetables is limited by the Labour available to harvest them.

NotSpaghetti

The area taken up with sugar beet is equal to all the land for growing all our vegetable crops.
We should cut back in my opinion and grow foods which are actively good for us.

NotSpaghetti The area taken up with sugar beet is equal to all the land for growing all our vegetable crops.

Generally sugar beets are rotating crop. View ^ planting in rotation.

The large sugar beet harvesters are usually operated by contractors and can clear a large area quickly with much less soil damage than old machinery.
Don’t get hung up on neonicotinoids their use is strictly controlled and is probably 5% or less than previously. Their effect on bees in particular was overstated, there was no widespread slaughter of bees when use was widespread, Honey was still being produced, even in hives alongside rape fields.

Oopsadaisy1

By selling the soil ( some for compost for potting on plants) surely they are just spreading around the neonicotinoids in the soil?

The bees won’t stand a chance

Maybe, it sounds logical but I’ve not read anything about the topsoil sold by British Sugar.