Another child killed in dog attack

I also question who could control eight dogs at one time.? The poor woman lost her life trying. Would any of the dog owners on Gransnet try to do so?

Germanshepherdsmum

Why? Because she’s a wonderful friend and companion, incredibly intelligent, loves people and delights in meeting them. I’m sure you will have seen programmes about German shepherd police dogs and the lifelong bond their handlers form with them.

I can see why people like German Shepherd dogs - Labradors, Airedales, Border Collies, etc - they are rather magnificent animals.

I know it's a question of personal taste, but for the life of me, I cannot see what is attractive about this American Bully. It almost looks like a caricature of a dog. To me it simply looks as if it's been bred to look as strong, fierce and aggressive as possible. And what's with the ears? Have they been cropped to streamline its appearance? Even restrained by their owners, I wouldn't want to be in close proximity.

th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.yfnnqr29zV9UxvZ0otwUtQHaHX?pid=ImgDet&w=194&h=192&c=7&dpr=1.3

They require a huge commitment to exercise from their owner; they also need to be 'socialised' so their 'protectiveness' doesn't turn into aggression (according to one breeder). They are often aggressive towards other animals. They also encounter serious health problems. Above all (according to the same breeder) they require a 'confident' owner who understands them, and can take charge of them.

According to this particular breeder the American Bully "lives for his family and may become destructive if left alone too much" and "dog aggression can be a problem; he should be thoroughly socialised with other dogs from an early age. Cats, too".

Owning an animal is a commitment anyway - but owning one of these dogs is one heck of a commitment.

Do some people who own dogs respect animals for what they are, or do they think that they just exist to please them. It seems like the dog-owning community is divided between those that understand their particular breed and are responsible owners, and the others who are irresponsible... and don't.

Do some people who own dogs respect animals for what they are, or do they think that they just exist to please them.

A question I often ask. Sadly I think that for some people it is about power and control. The dog satisfies their need to be obeyed and to mould a fellow creature to their needs.

In some cases it’s an accessory, such as the tiny dogs dressed up and carried in handbags or, at the other end of the scale, the American Bully type dog which its owner - usually a certain kind of man - thinks makes him look tough. Such dogs are not valued for themselves but for the image they project. They are not respected but exist to give the owner perceived respect. Their needs as dogs are not considered.
I agree Dickens - whilst I have no experience of the American Bully, they obviously have particular needs which I doubt most people who own them either know or care about, and I don’t find them remotely attractive either.

Spot on, GSM. Those type of dogs do project a certain image, and that's why a certain type of person acquires them - at both ends of that spectrum you have described. It's all about them - not about the dog. All they care about is what it adds to their image and not about the needs of the dog.

I'll say it again- we need a compulsory register of all dogs, and all dog owners. With chips and vet passport, to ensure they are not mutilated, etc, on a National Register, with compulsory fees for each dog (£50 for first, and then more for other dogs), to pay for the system. And BAN some breeds outright.

It can be done. It is done in so many countries. Why can't it be done in the UK?

And stop the import and export of such dogs.

The main thing is that any of the dogs that have the lock jaw confirmation are more dangerous than others if you add to that the size and weight of an american Bully you can see no matter what anyone says it’s not a family dog and a little4 year old wouldn’t have stood a chance

I didn't know this. Do some of those dogs have the same capability of badgers, to lock jaw so no-one can re-open it, with stick, etc. The reason badger baiters and dog fighter smash the jaw of badgers in fights, with spades, etc- to unlock?

If proper registration means that some dogs have to be PTS- it would be dreadful, but so be it.

Anyone who already owns such a dog would have to attend 2 or 3 sessions with dog specialist to assess their behaviour, recall, trigability, etc. and if they fail, they would have to go.

And I say this as a massive dog lover.

Saying this can't be done in UK, make people sound like those in the USA who say gun control is not possible.

Germanshepherdsmum

In some cases it’s an accessory, such as the tiny dogs dressed up and carried in handbags or, at the other end of the scale, the American Bully type dog which its owner - usually a certain kind of man - thinks makes him look tough. Such dogs are not valued for themselves but for the image they project. They are not respected but exist to give the owner perceived respect. Their needs as dogs are not considered.
I agree Dickens - whilst I have no experience of the American Bully, they obviously have particular needs which I doubt most people who own them either know or care about, and I don’t find them remotely attractive either.

In some cases it’s an accessory, such as the tiny dogs dressed up and carried in handbags...

In some cases it’s an accessory, such as the tiny dogs dressed up and carried in handbags...

... posted too soon!

This really does make me angry - it shows absolute disrespect to an animal's integrity, as an animal. And it indicates that the owner - though I'm sure they're very affectionate towards their pets - has acquired it as an accessory to their lifestyle.

I'd actually ban it - dogs should not be confined in fashionable clothes (unless it's a coat to protect them from the elements). It's awful, awful.

The fact that people who buy dogs like the American Bully tend to have their ears cut off (illegal of course) tells you all you need to know about the lives the dogs lead.

Most rescue centres are very careful about rehoming. If you go on line you will find many people complaining that they are refused dogs because their children are too young, or they haven't got a suitable garden, or the dog will be left alone too long.

I do think there needs to be a limit on how many dogs a dog walker can handle. Eight is ridiculous. I would have thought four would be a sensible maximum. When we had two dogs I found that was quite enough to manage on leads.

Dogs used in badger baiting or dog fights get so badly hurt in those fights, and not taken to the vet for fear of being prosecuted. They will stich up wounds themselves- it is just so dreadful. And just like in Fox Hunting, etc, dogs that show reticence to fighting, or lose fights, will be beaten up, hit with sitcks, spades, humilitated and tortured.

WE HAVE TO STOP THIS.

Fleurpepper

I didn't know this. Do some of those dogs have the same capability of badgers, to lock jaw so no-one can re-open it, with stick, etc. The reason badger baiters and dog fighter smash the jaw of badgers in fights, with spades, etc- to unlock?

No, I understand that it is a widespread myth.

Some dogs are so strong, however, that only twisting the collar to cut off the air supply might make them let go.

Fleurpepper

Dogs used in badger baiting or dog fights get so badly hurt in those fights, and not taken to the vet for fear of being prosecuted. They will stich up wounds themselves- it is just so dreadful. And just like in Fox Hunting, etc, dogs that show reticence to fighting, or lose fights, will be beaten up, hit with sitcks, spades, humilitated and tortured.

WE HAVE TO STOP THIS.

These activities are illegal in the UK.

Germanshepherdsmum

Fleurpepper

Dogs used in badger baiting or dog fights get so badly hurt in those fights, and not taken to the vet for fear of being prosecuted. They will stich up wounds themselves- it is just so dreadful. And just like in Fox Hunting, etc, dogs that show reticence to fighting, or lose fights, will be beaten up, hit with sitcks, spades, humilitated and tortured.

WE HAVE TO STOP THIS.

These activities are illegal in the UK.

If you know these activities are going on in your area, you should call the police or the RSPCA on 0300 1234 999, Fleurpepper

Iam64

The DM on line has an interactive map showing where most dog attacks leading to death have taken place. There’s a steady increase which goes up from 2020. The north west and Birmingham seem to have more incidents, with London and now Suffolk after the woman was killed by the 8 dogs she was walking.

When she was about 15 minths, my huge gentle labradoodle brought me a young rabbit she’d caught, I told her ‘drop it;, she snapped it’s neck and dropped it at my feet, chest out, hugely proud of herself. I’d never had a dog with such a high prey urge. We live on the edge of moorland, so deer and sheep ever present. I learned a lot about teaching recall and having her walk at my side off lead, she was a very intelligent, trainable dog. Doodles often have a high prey urge, it’s one of the many reasons they end up in rescue. Her background was working lab x standard poodle. Two highly intelligent dogs from working backgrounds. She was a beauty - but cute/a fur baby -never.

6When we lived in London back in the 80s we occasionally looked after a Saluki when her owners were on holiday. For those who don't know the breed they are used for chasing gazelles, The hunter has a special saddle on his horse for a pair of dogs. He chases after the prey and when gets close the dogs are pushed off and they go after it. They are very fast.

One day we were in Bushey Park, no deer anywhere in site. We were walking towards the entrance which was set between houses and so not visible until you reached the gap. We round the hedges and there was Aja with a deer at bay. He was a fully grown stag with very large antlers and head down. Luckily we were able to get her away before either she or he attacked.

Despite training the dogs retain their ancient instincts. My French sheepdog will stand outside just listening to sounds she can hear but my ears cannot.

Fleurpepper They aren't taken to a vet because they are too mean to pay for treatment. They won't even buy animal products but will use products suitable for humans rather than dogs. Obviously the illegality comes into it but they just don't care about their animals.

Dinahmo

Iam64

The DM on line has an interactive map showing where most dog attacks leading to death have taken place. There’s a steady increase which goes up from 2020. The north west and Birmingham seem to have more incidents, with London and now Suffolk after the woman was killed by the 8 dogs she was walking.

When she was about 15 minths, my huge gentle labradoodle brought me a young rabbit she’d caught, I told her ‘drop it;, she snapped it’s neck and dropped it at my feet, chest out, hugely proud of herself. I’d never had a dog with such a high prey urge. We live on the edge of moorland, so deer and sheep ever present. I learned a lot about teaching recall and having her walk at my side off lead, she was a very intelligent, trainable dog. Doodles often have a high prey urge, it’s one of the many reasons they end up in rescue. Her background was working lab x standard poodle. Two highly intelligent dogs from working backgrounds. She was a beauty - but cute/a fur baby -never.

6When we lived in London back in the 80s we occasionally looked after a Saluki when her owners were on holiday. For those who don't know the breed they are used for chasing gazelles, The hunter has a special saddle on his horse for a pair of dogs. He chases after the prey and when gets close the dogs are pushed off and they go after it. They are very fast.

One day we were in Bushey Park, no deer anywhere in site. We were walking towards the entrance which was set between houses and so not visible until you reached the gap. We round the hedges and there was Aja with a deer at bay. He was a fully grown stag with very large antlers and head down. Luckily we were able to get her away before either she or he attacked.

Despite training the dogs retain their ancient instincts. My French sheepdog will stand outside just listening to sounds she can hear but my ears cannot.

One day we were in Bushey Park, no deer anywhere in site. We were walking towards the entrance which was set between houses and so not visible until you reached the gap. We round the hedges and there was Aja with a deer at bay. He was a fully grown stag with very large antlers and head down. Luckily we were able to get her away before either she or he attacked.

During the deer birthing-season, all dog owners were asked to keep their dogs on leads - at all times, everywhere, in Bushy (and Richmond) park.

Unfortunately, many dog owners protested this measure, they felt it was too restrictive and the season lasted too long.

Motorists and cyclists can also be inconsiderate - racing through the park above the speed limit. Deer have been killed and injured by all of these selfish groups of people.

I worked for a company that had offices overlooking Bushy Park. I cannot tell you the number of times I saw dogs chasing the deer, and motorists (and cyclists) speeding towards the main entrance. And sometimes the dogs chased the deer and they ran in front of the cars in a panic. <<<sigh>>>

I really hope that if you’ve witnessed the illegal activities you mentioned you have reported them fp?

Dickens thinking back I'm talking about the early 70s when we lived near Kensington Gardens. We lived in Brixton in the 80s and she was long gone by then. I don't think there were notices up about dogs when we took her to Bushey Park. If there were I didn't see them. From what I remember there were few people used the parks unless it was for the funfairs which I went to as a child. I've fond memories of those, Do they still happen?

Dickens

^In some cases it’s an accessory, such as the tiny dogs dressed up and carried in handbags^...

... posted too soon!

This really does make me angry - it shows absolute disrespect to an animal's integrity, as an animal. And it indicates that the owner - though I'm sure they're very affectionate towards their pets - has acquired it as an accessory to their lifestyle.

I'd actually ban it - dogs should not be confined in fashionable clothes (unless it's a coat to protect them from the elements). It's awful, awful.

I know of someone with a Pomeranian, she carries it in a baby carrier on her chest, including when driving, the dog cost £3,000. The breeder, who’s local, does not toilet train her animals, they go where they like in the house, vanity dogs that make her a lot of money for little effort.

Dinahmo

Dickens thinking back I'm talking about the early 70s when we lived near Kensington Gardens. We lived in Brixton in the 80s and she was long gone by then. I don't think there were notices up about dogs when we took her to Bushey Park. If there were I didn't see them. From what I remember there were few people used the parks unless it was for the funfairs which I went to as a child. I've fond memories of those, Do they still happen?

I don't think the (many) notices began appearing until the 90s, and then they proliferated (along with the number of 'incidents').

Not sure about the funfairs (I've moved from the area though). I believe there are some 'events' in the car-park - with rides for children, market stalls, etc.

There are funfairs held on Hampton Court Green - and there's also ice-skating at the Palace (which sounds like fun!).

Jaxjacky

Dickens

In some cases it’s an accessory, such as the tiny dogs dressed up and carried in handbags...

... posted too soon!

This really does make me angry - it shows absolute disrespect to an animal's integrity, as an animal. And it indicates that the owner - though I'm sure they're very affectionate towards their pets - has acquired it as an accessory to their lifestyle.

I'd actually ban it - dogs should not be confined in fashionable clothes (unless it's a coat to protect them from the elements). It's awful, awful.

I know of someone with a Pomeranian, she carries it in a baby carrier on her chest, including when driving, the dog cost £3,000. The breeder, who’s local, does not toilet train her animals, they go where they like in the house, vanity dogs that make her a lot of money for little effort.

I know of someone with a Pomeranian, she carries it in a baby carrier on her chest, including when driving, the dog cost £3,000. The breeder, who’s local, does not toilet train her animals, they go where they like in the house, vanity dogs that make her a lot of money for little effort.

Ye Gods!

Is it even legal to drive with an animal strapped to your chest I wonder?