Another child killed in dog attack

Germanshepherdsmum

You said SOMETHING MUST BE DONE fp. I pointed out that it already has. These activities are illegal and it’s up to each of us to report any breach of the law that we see - as I have done. What does that have to do with being ‘ordinary folk’?

Do you know ordinary folk who dog fight and badger bait???

Very few people who are not part of this underground, dangerous world, would be aware of it- and know when and where it happens. They don't do this in broad day light around the corner from where most people live!

Fleurpepper

I'll say it again- we need a compulsory register of all dogs, and all dog owners. With chips and vet passport, to ensure they are not mutilated, etc, on a National Register, with compulsory fees for each dog (£50 for first, and then more for other dogs), to pay for the system. And BAN some breeds outright.

It can be done. It is done in so many countries. Why can't it be done in the UK?

This

In my experience with German Shepherds, Halti head collars use can be taught to the dog quite easily as GSDs are quick learners. What you do is you associate the head collar's appearance with a treat or a game. When the Halti is not scary any more you can feed a treat through the head collar without fastening it. Then maybe next time the dog is happy to let you fasten it before he gets his treat.
Haltis give the holder almost finger tip control of a large dog as they work the same way a s a horse's head collar.

You said SOMETHING MUST BE DONE fp. I pointed out that it already has. These activities are illegal and it’s up to each of us to report any breach of the law that we see - as I have done. What does that have to do with being ‘ordinary folk’?

A dog may be fine with adults but won’t understand what children are if it hasn’t been properly and safely introduced to them. It may be obvious to us that they’re small people, but not to a dog no matter how intelligent.

Germanshepherdsmum

We know this happens fp. It’s illegal and up to us to report it if we see it happening,

SueDonim - that sounds like a halti harness. In my experience GSDs don’t like them. A basic harness or lead gives good control and prevents that sort of behaviour.

And how would 'ordinary' folk find out. It is a very secret and dangerous world. I know! What was the point of saying it is illegal, in this context?

I don't own a dog ( had dogs when a child) I am not afraid of dogs and very fond of my daughters dogs. However I know from experience that the friendliest dog can turn. nasty. Have posted about this before , I was taking care of my GC aged 6. My neighbours dog who I know well and had always been a ' softie ' escaped his garden and ran into my kitchen . I was not in the least perturbed, I was very fond of him! GC quietly playing , the dog ran straight up to GC growling and snarling - I was terrified. Grabbed GC and took child straight into my utility room asked him / her to stay there till I came back then shut the door. I returned to kitchen and the dog was back to his friendly self . Coming up to me and wanting a cuddle. I took him by the collar and led him outside - he ran straight home. My GD was remarkably calm , I didn't make an issue of it in front of GC and there appears to be know lasting damage to GC. I spoke to my neighbour but she didn't seem to fully understand how nasty her dog had been! The moral of this story is NEVER ever be 100% that a dog is a complete softie - it is simply not true !

We know this happens fp. It’s illegal and up to us to report it if we see it happening,

SueDonim - that sounds like a halti harness. In my experience GSDs don’t like them. A basic harness or lead gives good control and prevents that sort of behaviour.

Indeed, some people have NO idea!

The price of a so-called ‘sport’. Badger baiting sees small, terrier-type dogs sent down badger setts to find badgers and hold them at bay while the baiters dig them out. Once exposed, badgers are dragged out and attacked immediately or sold to underground baiting rings, often for more than £500.

In the associated practice of ‘lamping’, hunters use spotlights to momentarily mesmerise badgers in the beam, before unleashing dogs to kill them.

To make things worse, badgers are often deliberately injured before the fight, breaking their jaws, teeth or limbs, just to make the fight last longer. The badgers always die – frightened and in excruciating pain. Sometimes the dogs die too, or suffer terrible wounds, often stitched up by their owners without anaesthetic.

Making some illegal doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Dog fighting, badget baiting etc certainly still goes on - just ask any rural police officer or wildlife officer.

and lamping!

Germanshepherdsmum

Fleurpepper

Dogs used in badger baiting or dog fights get so badly hurt in those fights, and not taken to the vet for fear of being prosecuted. They will stich up wounds themselves- it is just so dreadful. And just like in Fox Hunting, etc, dogs that show reticence to fighting, or lose fights, will be beaten up, hit with sitcks, spades, humilitated and tortured.

WE HAVE TO STOP THIS.

These activities are illegal in the UK.

Of course they are illegal- that is the very point. It happens, in some regions more than others. I used to work with several associations and also Police Wildlife liaison officers- but it certainly does happen- yes, in the UK- where it is illegal!

Often linked to the Hunts terriermen, and old mining areas- but not exclusively.

My dd knows someone with two of those little hairy dogs, like papillons or similar. They wear nappies in the house!

I saw an accident waiting to happen today. A woman was walking a full grown cream-coloured German shepherd dog with a head type harness on and she was struggling to control the animal. It was rearing up and bucking and twisting around, pulling her in every direction. The nearby school had just finished for the day but luckily there were no children particularly close at that point. It looked terrifying.

sodapop

It is a form of cruelty isn't it Jaxjacky and Dickens to restrict dogs in clothing and carriers etc. I have seen such ridiculous outfits on dogs on social media doesn't bear thinking about. I once tried to put a coat on my Jack Russell, he wriggled out of it and gave me such a look I never tried again. 😀
As for letting dogs pee & poop in the house words fail me.

It's a form of abuse IMO.

Such people wash and 'deodorise' these little dogs - frequently, fuss around with their fur tying little bows etc into it, stuff them into handbags (and baby carriers)... make them do cute little 'begs' for treats, to impress their onlookers - or satisfy their own ego.

Even little dogs need to run around outside unencumbered, they need to delve and dive into the undergrowth, sniff around, and just be dogs.

It’s is cruel, the breeder is driven by ££ and seems the buyers are obsessed by purchasing a specific breed, not caring about its origins. I also believe anyone can set up as a dog trainer and/or behaviourist, no formal accreditation or registration is enforced.

I’d just like to say that no dog has a jaw that can lock. It’s a myth. Some dogs have stronger, more muscled jaws but there’s no dog that has lock jaw.

As for all these proposed rules and regulations they just won’t work. The type of person that wants one of these dogs isn’t a responsible owner, often lives outside the law ( evidenced in the Panorama programme) and who is going to police it? I posted a few weeks ago my experience of seeing two shady looking men with 5 of these XL bullies in a van. 2 were running freely around a housing estate and one did a steaming mound of excrement outside someone’s house on the pavement. The men couldn’t have cared less and I didn’t dare get out of my car with my grandson. I checked the reg of the van after and it hadn’t had any tax or mot since 2015!! I doubt these dogs were well looked after.

I think it’s cruel, yes. Humiliating. What on earth must the house be like? Disgusting.

It is a form of cruelty isn't it Jaxjacky and Dickens to restrict dogs in clothing and carriers etc. I have seen such ridiculous outfits on dogs on social media doesn't bear thinking about. I once tried to put a coat on my Jack Russell, he wriggled out of it and gave me such a look I never tried again. 😀
As for letting dogs pee & poop in the house words fail me.

Jaxjacky

Dickens

In some cases it’s an accessory, such as the tiny dogs dressed up and carried in handbags...

... posted too soon!

This really does make me angry - it shows absolute disrespect to an animal's integrity, as an animal. And it indicates that the owner - though I'm sure they're very affectionate towards their pets - has acquired it as an accessory to their lifestyle.

I'd actually ban it - dogs should not be confined in fashionable clothes (unless it's a coat to protect them from the elements). It's awful, awful.

I know of someone with a Pomeranian, she carries it in a baby carrier on her chest, including when driving, the dog cost £3,000. The breeder, who’s local, does not toilet train her animals, they go where they like in the house, vanity dogs that make her a lot of money for little effort.

I know of someone with a Pomeranian, she carries it in a baby carrier on her chest, including when driving, the dog cost £3,000. The breeder, who’s local, does not toilet train her animals, they go where they like in the house, vanity dogs that make her a lot of money for little effort.

Ye Gods!

Is it even legal to drive with an animal strapped to your chest I wonder?

Dinahmo

Dickens thinking back I'm talking about the early 70s when we lived near Kensington Gardens. We lived in Brixton in the 80s and she was long gone by then. I don't think there were notices up about dogs when we took her to Bushey Park. If there were I didn't see them. From what I remember there were few people used the parks unless it was for the funfairs which I went to as a child. I've fond memories of those, Do they still happen?

I don't think the (many) notices began appearing until the 90s, and then they proliferated (along with the number of 'incidents').

Not sure about the funfairs (I've moved from the area though). I believe there are some 'events' in the car-park - with rides for children, market stalls, etc.

There are funfairs held on Hampton Court Green - and there's also ice-skating at the Palace (which sounds like fun!).

Dickens

^In some cases it’s an accessory, such as the tiny dogs dressed up and carried in handbags^...

... posted too soon!

This really does make me angry - it shows absolute disrespect to an animal's integrity, as an animal. And it indicates that the owner - though I'm sure they're very affectionate towards their pets - has acquired it as an accessory to their lifestyle.

I'd actually ban it - dogs should not be confined in fashionable clothes (unless it's a coat to protect them from the elements). It's awful, awful.

I know of someone with a Pomeranian, she carries it in a baby carrier on her chest, including when driving, the dog cost £3,000. The breeder, who’s local, does not toilet train her animals, they go where they like in the house, vanity dogs that make her a lot of money for little effort.

Dickens thinking back I'm talking about the early 70s when we lived near Kensington Gardens. We lived in Brixton in the 80s and she was long gone by then. I don't think there were notices up about dogs when we took her to Bushey Park. If there were I didn't see them. From what I remember there were few people used the parks unless it was for the funfairs which I went to as a child. I've fond memories of those, Do they still happen?

I really hope that if you’ve witnessed the illegal activities you mentioned you have reported them fp?

Dinahmo

Iam64

The DM on line has an interactive map showing where most dog attacks leading to death have taken place. There’s a steady increase which goes up from 2020. The north west and Birmingham seem to have more incidents, with London and now Suffolk after the woman was killed by the 8 dogs she was walking.

When she was about 15 minths, my huge gentle labradoodle brought me a young rabbit she’d caught, I told her ‘drop it;, she snapped it’s neck and dropped it at my feet, chest out, hugely proud of herself. I’d never had a dog with such a high prey urge. We live on the edge of moorland, so deer and sheep ever present. I learned a lot about teaching recall and having her walk at my side off lead, she was a very intelligent, trainable dog. Doodles often have a high prey urge, it’s one of the many reasons they end up in rescue. Her background was working lab x standard poodle. Two highly intelligent dogs from working backgrounds. She was a beauty - but cute/a fur baby -never.

6When we lived in London back in the 80s we occasionally looked after a Saluki when her owners were on holiday. For those who don't know the breed they are used for chasing gazelles, The hunter has a special saddle on his horse for a pair of dogs. He chases after the prey and when gets close the dogs are pushed off and they go after it. They are very fast.

One day we were in Bushey Park, no deer anywhere in site. We were walking towards the entrance which was set between houses and so not visible until you reached the gap. We round the hedges and there was Aja with a deer at bay. He was a fully grown stag with very large antlers and head down. Luckily we were able to get her away before either she or he attacked.

Despite training the dogs retain their ancient instincts. My French sheepdog will stand outside just listening to sounds she can hear but my ears cannot.

One day we were in Bushey Park, no deer anywhere in site. We were walking towards the entrance which was set between houses and so not visible until you reached the gap. We round the hedges and there was Aja with a deer at bay. He was a fully grown stag with very large antlers and head down. Luckily we were able to get her away before either she or he attacked.

During the deer birthing-season, all dog owners were asked to keep their dogs on leads - at all times, everywhere, in Bushy (and Richmond) park.

Unfortunately, many dog owners protested this measure, they felt it was too restrictive and the season lasted too long.

Motorists and cyclists can also be inconsiderate - racing through the park above the speed limit. Deer have been killed and injured by all of these selfish groups of people.

I worked for a company that had offices overlooking Bushy Park. I cannot tell you the number of times I saw dogs chasing the deer, and motorists (and cyclists) speeding towards the main entrance. And sometimes the dogs chased the deer and they ran in front of the cars in a panic. <<<sigh>>>

Fleurpepper They aren't taken to a vet because they are too mean to pay for treatment. They won't even buy animal products but will use products suitable for humans rather than dogs. Obviously the illegality comes into it but they just don't care about their animals.