Another child killed in dog attack

Iam64

The DM on line has an interactive map showing where most dog attacks leading to death have taken place. There’s a steady increase which goes up from 2020. The north west and Birmingham seem to have more incidents, with London and now Suffolk after the woman was killed by the 8 dogs she was walking.

When she was about 15 minths, my huge gentle labradoodle brought me a young rabbit she’d caught, I told her ‘drop it;, she snapped it’s neck and dropped it at my feet, chest out, hugely proud of herself. I’d never had a dog with such a high prey urge. We live on the edge of moorland, so deer and sheep ever present. I learned a lot about teaching recall and having her walk at my side off lead, she was a very intelligent, trainable dog. Doodles often have a high prey urge, it’s one of the many reasons they end up in rescue. Her background was working lab x standard poodle. Two highly intelligent dogs from working backgrounds. She was a beauty - but cute/a fur baby -never.

6When we lived in London back in the 80s we occasionally looked after a Saluki when her owners were on holiday. For those who don't know the breed they are used for chasing gazelles, The hunter has a special saddle on his horse for a pair of dogs. He chases after the prey and when gets close the dogs are pushed off and they go after it. They are very fast.

One day we were in Bushey Park, no deer anywhere in site. We were walking towards the entrance which was set between houses and so not visible until you reached the gap. We round the hedges and there was Aja with a deer at bay. He was a fully grown stag with very large antlers and head down. Luckily we were able to get her away before either she or he attacked.

Despite training the dogs retain their ancient instincts. My French sheepdog will stand outside just listening to sounds she can hear but my ears cannot.

Germanshepherdsmum

Fleurpepper

Dogs used in badger baiting or dog fights get so badly hurt in those fights, and not taken to the vet for fear of being prosecuted. They will stich up wounds themselves- it is just so dreadful. And just like in Fox Hunting, etc, dogs that show reticence to fighting, or lose fights, will be beaten up, hit with sitcks, spades, humilitated and tortured.

WE HAVE TO STOP THIS.

These activities are illegal in the UK.

If you know these activities are going on in your area, you should call the police or the RSPCA on 0300 1234 999, Fleurpepper

Fleurpepper

Dogs used in badger baiting or dog fights get so badly hurt in those fights, and not taken to the vet for fear of being prosecuted. They will stich up wounds themselves- it is just so dreadful. And just like in Fox Hunting, etc, dogs that show reticence to fighting, or lose fights, will be beaten up, hit with sitcks, spades, humilitated and tortured.

WE HAVE TO STOP THIS.

These activities are illegal in the UK.

Fleurpepper

I didn't know this. Do some of those dogs have the same capability of badgers, to lock jaw so no-one can re-open it, with stick, etc. The reason badger baiters and dog fighter smash the jaw of badgers in fights, with spades, etc- to unlock?

No, I understand that it is a widespread myth.

Some dogs are so strong, however, that only twisting the collar to cut off the air supply might make them let go.

Dogs used in badger baiting or dog fights get so badly hurt in those fights, and not taken to the vet for fear of being prosecuted. They will stich up wounds themselves- it is just so dreadful. And just like in Fox Hunting, etc, dogs that show reticence to fighting, or lose fights, will be beaten up, hit with sitcks, spades, humilitated and tortured.

WE HAVE TO STOP THIS.

The fact that people who buy dogs like the American Bully tend to have their ears cut off (illegal of course) tells you all you need to know about the lives the dogs lead.

Most rescue centres are very careful about rehoming. If you go on line you will find many people complaining that they are refused dogs because their children are too young, or they haven't got a suitable garden, or the dog will be left alone too long.

I do think there needs to be a limit on how many dogs a dog walker can handle. Eight is ridiculous. I would have thought four would be a sensible maximum. When we had two dogs I found that was quite enough to manage on leads.

In some cases it’s an accessory, such as the tiny dogs dressed up and carried in handbags...

... posted too soon!

This really does make me angry - it shows absolute disrespect to an animal's integrity, as an animal. And it indicates that the owner - though I'm sure they're very affectionate towards their pets - has acquired it as an accessory to their lifestyle.

I'd actually ban it - dogs should not be confined in fashionable clothes (unless it's a coat to protect them from the elements). It's awful, awful.

Germanshepherdsmum

In some cases it’s an accessory, such as the tiny dogs dressed up and carried in handbags or, at the other end of the scale, the American Bully type dog which its owner - usually a certain kind of man - thinks makes him look tough. Such dogs are not valued for themselves but for the image they project. They are not respected but exist to give the owner perceived respect. Their needs as dogs are not considered.
I agree Dickens - whilst I have no experience of the American Bully, they obviously have particular needs which I doubt most people who own them either know or care about, and I don’t find them remotely attractive either.

In some cases it’s an accessory, such as the tiny dogs dressed up and carried in handbags...

If proper registration means that some dogs have to be PTS- it would be dreadful, but so be it.

Anyone who already owns such a dog would have to attend 2 or 3 sessions with dog specialist to assess their behaviour, recall, trigability, etc. and if they fail, they would have to go.

And I say this as a massive dog lover.

Saying this can't be done in UK, make people sound like those in the USA who say gun control is not possible.

I didn't know this. Do some of those dogs have the same capability of badgers, to lock jaw so no-one can re-open it, with stick, etc. The reason badger baiters and dog fighter smash the jaw of badgers in fights, with spades, etc- to unlock?

The main thing is that any of the dogs that have the lock jaw confirmation are more dangerous than others if you add to that the size and weight of an american Bully you can see no matter what anyone says it’s not a family dog and a little4 year old wouldn’t have stood a chance

And stop the import and export of such dogs.

I'll say it again- we need a compulsory register of all dogs, and all dog owners. With chips and vet passport, to ensure they are not mutilated, etc, on a National Register, with compulsory fees for each dog (£50 for first, and then more for other dogs), to pay for the system. And BAN some breeds outright.

It can be done. It is done in so many countries. Why can't it be done in the UK?

Spot on, GSM. Those type of dogs do project a certain image, and that's why a certain type of person acquires them - at both ends of that spectrum you have described. It's all about them - not about the dog. All they care about is what it adds to their image and not about the needs of the dog.

In some cases it’s an accessory, such as the tiny dogs dressed up and carried in handbags or, at the other end of the scale, the American Bully type dog which its owner - usually a certain kind of man - thinks makes him look tough. Such dogs are not valued for themselves but for the image they project. They are not respected but exist to give the owner perceived respect. Their needs as dogs are not considered.
I agree Dickens - whilst I have no experience of the American Bully, they obviously have particular needs which I doubt most people who own them either know or care about, and I don’t find them remotely attractive either.

Do some people who own dogs respect animals for what they are, or do they think that they just exist to please them.

A question I often ask. Sadly I think that for some people it is about power and control. The dog satisfies their need to be obeyed and to mould a fellow creature to their needs.

Germanshepherdsmum

Why? Because she’s a wonderful friend and companion, incredibly intelligent, loves people and delights in meeting them. I’m sure you will have seen programmes about German shepherd police dogs and the lifelong bond their handlers form with them.

I can see why people like German Shepherd dogs - Labradors, Airedales, Border Collies, etc - they are rather magnificent animals.

I know it's a question of personal taste, but for the life of me, I cannot see what is attractive about this American Bully. It almost looks like a caricature of a dog. To me it simply looks as if it's been bred to look as strong, fierce and aggressive as possible. And what's with the ears? Have they been cropped to streamline its appearance? Even restrained by their owners, I wouldn't want to be in close proximity.

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They require a huge commitment to exercise from their owner; they also need to be 'socialised' so their 'protectiveness' doesn't turn into aggression (according to one breeder). They are often aggressive towards other animals. They also encounter serious health problems. Above all (according to the same breeder) they require a 'confident' owner who understands them, and can take charge of them.

According to this particular breeder the American Bully "lives for his family and may become destructive if left alone too much" and "dog aggression can be a problem; he should be thoroughly socialised with other dogs from an early age. Cats, too".

Owning an animal is a commitment anyway - but owning one of these dogs is one heck of a commitment.

Do some people who own dogs respect animals for what they are, or do they think that they just exist to please them. It seems like the dog-owning community is divided between those that understand their particular breed and are responsible owners, and the others who are irresponsible... and don't.

I also question who could control eight dogs at one time.? The poor woman lost her life trying. Would any of the dog owners on Gransnet try to do so?

In a lot of cases, I don't think it is really the dog's fault it is the owner's. Some people who buy dogs have not got a clue how to train or look after them. The dogs are often far too big for the houses they are expected to live in with small gardens and only get two short walks a day to and from the child's school.
Many years ago a neighbour bought a dog a mongrel crossed with a border collie. It often escaped and got onto the dual carriageway causing havoc trying to round up cars, it's natural instinct. Surely it was the owner's fault, not the dogs.
It has to be asked why did a family with a young boisterous child buy such a large dog which is now being tested by the police as it might be the illegal crossing of illegal breeds.
Yes, I feel sorry for the family and the dog But more so for the poor child who lost her life because of her parent's mistakes.

I wonder if it came from abroad? I have no experience of the rescue centres which bring dogs in from, for instance, Spain and Romania, whether they apply the usual stringent standards. No responsible rescue would place a dog in a home with such a young child either resident or visiting. They would also ask about the amount of exercise the dog would be given. We will find out more in time. I imagine the police haven’t divulged any information because they are still investigating.

We can only read news reports about this appalling tragedy but from what I have read so far I can’t help thinking oh dear.
Neighbours report this dog was from a rescue but most rescues would not rehome in these conditions. I have rehomed and the rescue has been very stringent with a home visit and checking the ages of any children and the suitability of the breed with its prospect home.
The dog was never seen out dogs need excercise and training.
They had had the dog for only a few weeks so all time spent with the dog should be supervised and its real character was unknown.

You sum it up perfectly Blondiescot.

It’s not ‘unbelievably unacceptable’ to have a dog in the workplace. It’s not uncommon. They are not vicious, filthy beasts to be avoided at all costs. What about assistance dogs who accompany their owners everywhere, and without whom the owner would be housebound and existing on benefits? When I travelled into the City for work, a blind lady got on the train every day with her guide dog. He was perfectly behaved and gave her the ability, courage and confidence to carry on with her life and navigate the busy streets. After a day in the office he brought her safely home again. Don’t say ‘that’s different’. It isn’t.

Luckygirl3

Joseanne

I guess we have a dog for company, comfort, fun, exercise etc. They bring pleasure to some, no real logic involved, as for me I don't need to assess everything for its point or purpose.
(For 20 years mine came to work with me too!)

Oh wow! Came to work!!! For me that is an unbelievably unacceptable idea - unless of course you are a shepherdess!

Yes, a shepherdess of children (far more difficult to herd than sheep). Also a rural holiday complex host where visitors x 30 felt relaxed.
PS the dog featured in all our advertising and brochures, so no one who thought it unacceptable was forced to come. However, we were over subscribed and fully booked!

Indeed - it was one example.

Luckygirl3

Joseanne

I guess we have a dog for company, comfort, fun, exercise etc. They bring pleasure to some, no real logic involved, as for me I don't need to assess everything for its point or purpose.
(For 20 years mine came to work with me too!)

Oh wow! Came to work!!! For me that is an unbelievably unacceptable idea - unless of course you are a shepherdess!

There are far more working dogs than just sheepdogs! Dogs play a vital role in many jobs.