Capital Punishment

can I just say any one who hurts or kills a child, who can not help them selves or save them self is not fit for any thing but hanging . sorry but uk too soft on criminals of any sort.

bevisp1

I think here in the UK, we as a country are too soft on convicts, criminals etc, becoming a lawless society I read, and I believe so. It doesn’t help that the police force has been drastically reduced over the last years. Some people are getting away with ‘murder’ excuse the pun. About time something was done before all the jails become even more so overcrowded.

Yes that's another fact, we struggle on with clapped out Victorian (or older!!) Gaols upgrading piecemeal with extensions new wings new paint....... And refuse to allow new purpose built facilities that could should and would provide secured incarceration with rehabilitation facilities and start trying to get what are many lost causes turned to minor crimes for lack of alternatives, on the right track.mammouth task as jobs and housing (total lack of) are at the root causes of so many crimes, drugs at the heart of most minor crimes, and our failure to be realistic about what we need to pay for a safe thriving society by succession of career driven governments, it is costing us dearly.

For me, absolutely none irrespective of the crime ! It’s not a deterrent and it’s awful if a mistake is made and also, whilst not religious, I actually don’t believe anyone has the right to take anyone else’s life.

Having said that, our own UK sentences really needs reviewing - violent crimes should be long sentences and life should mean life and more many other crimes is not put people into prison, I’d issue long community sentences and try to make the penalty fit the crime. I also believe rehabilitation is very important.

Yes…After the despicable murder of that poor lad Drummer Lee Rigby. The perpetrators were quite happy to flaunt their guilt so why would you not want an eye for an eye? Why should we have to pay for this scum to remain in our prison system? Too many of the bleeding hearts brigade in this country. We’ve become a joke!

Georgesgran

Well said Urms. I take great exception to those comments Riverwalk. May I then assume you’re a Southern Softie?
Anyway, I’m off to find my flat cap and feed the whippets!

I take exception too. Old, northern and ill educated - thanks! Disgraceful generalisation.

I don't see anyone suggested only child crimes being punished this? Conclusion jumping.

GrammarGrandma

No. It condemns someone to be an executioner on behalf of the rest of us. Not acceptable.

The job's not a compulsory conscription position!!!
Albert Pierrepoint was our executioner until the abolition of capital punishment, it was a profession a skill and he was proud of the expertise and professionalism. He was widely regards as the world's premier at his profession, so when they needed someone to execute the filth of Nurmberg, his services were called upon and he did so quietly quickly and to everyone's relief and satisfaction, .
Should such sentence be appropriate today?
Moors murderers/Bellfield / cousins/anyone and everyone guilty of infanticide etc
Case rested. Folks need to stop being so naïve and uneducated as to exactly who would be eligible. Miscarriage of justices as seen pre DNA and forensic science days would not occur now. The element of any doubts rendering a not guilty or non proven case will still apply. It's just that it's thankfully so very much more difficult to "get away" with crimes now. We should think long and hard what the definition of 'civilised' actually is?

Would any of you like to be looking after Lee Bellfield in prison?

That's why we have prison officers.
In recent years some mass murderers have killed themselves in prison rather than face life sentences - showing they fear prison more than death. Dr Shipman was one.

Newdawn

Who would dare argue for the death sentence on a thread like this. I don't believe in it in principle but then I am not one of the three families who had a young daughter murdered by Lee Bellfield. Would any of you like to be looking after Lee Bellfield in prison?

You have no idea at all of who is on this thread or of what they have suffered in their life.

Not acceptable, no justification for it at all. For those that suggest that child murder does - well, my children are as precious to me now as when they were babies. Age does not diminish their worth to me and should not diminish their value to society.......otherwise we would have to do conclude the murder of the very old would carry no serious consequence at all.
Let us keep our country civilised.

I think here in the UK, we as a country are too soft on convicts, criminals etc, becoming a lawless society I read, and I believe so. It doesn’t help that the police force has been drastically reduced over the last years. Some people are getting away with ‘murder’ excuse the pun. About time something was done before all the jails become even more so overcrowded.

Who would dare argue for the death sentence on a thread like this. I don't believe in it in principle but then I am not one of the three families who had a young daughter murdered by Lee Bellfield. Would any of you like to be looking after Lee Bellfield in prison?

No. It condemns someone to be an executioner on behalf of the rest of us. Not acceptable.

Boz

Are prisoners allowed to use the Internet? Can they join forums, for example?

No. See the following from gov website

Prisoners are not allowed to access social networking websites (such as Facebook or Twitter) while they’re in custody.

You cannot email prisoners directly, but you can use a service called Email a Prisoner. If you send a message this way, it’ll be printed out and delivered by prison staff. Each email costs 40p and you need to buy credit to use the

Are prisoners allowed to use the Internet? Can they join forums, for example?

Would those of you who think prisoners have a cushy existence prefer to have them locked up, no TV, no socialising, no books, nothing? Like that idiot Grayling who tried to stop prisoners from receiving gifts of books and magazines? The loss of liberty is the punishment, loss of seeing your children grow, doing the normal things we all take for granted such as popping out to see a friend, taking the dog for a walk, eating what you want when you want. I am not an apologist for criminals, but some people do talk inflammatory nonsense about 'luxury' in prison. If your elderly next door neighbour is eating less than a prisoner, and is cold, it is not the fault of the criminal who is languishing in his/her cell for 23 hours a day.

Farzanah

Thank you for reminding about Hislop confronting PP Siope but I did mention near the beginning of this discussion.
I agree with your points Iam64.

And I thought I’d read it all so carefully! Sorry I missed that.

Other European countries at least make an effort to rehabilitate.

If you brutalise people, a very large proportion who have MH issues and no adequate treatment, what do you expect?

BTW, upthread there was a comment on why do we allow various "entertainments" when we intend to punish?

As long a many prisoners have to spend 23 hours a day in their cells, not to do so would create total mayhem and there are not the warders or facilities to allow more time exercising/classes and so on.

Very true Iam64.

don’t you think we should ask why our country has more prisoners per head of population than nearly all other first world countries
Yes we should and many of us do. Our current government did its best to destroy any service that provided support to people who are in a trajectory to imprisonment. Their answer appears to be building more prisons.

Never, never, never I have always been totally against capital punishment What right have we to do the same as the criminal Are we then any better?
I do believe in longer sentences, that police man has been given 32 life sentences which they equate to 30 years in prison where is the maths in that !!!!
I also think that prison should not be so comfortable for murderers

We should never reinstate the death penalty.

When we sentence offenders to a prison sentence we should bear in mind the purpose of imprisonment.

Imprisonment serves four purposes.

Firstly Punishment by depriving the prisoner of his liberty

Secondly - Deterrance - by showing other would-be offenders what might happen to them

Thirdly - Rehabilitation - trying to ensure that the offender does not offend after his release.

Fourthly - Protection of the public. Some offenders are so dangerous that they must be kept in custody until such time (if it ever happens) that they are no longer considered dangerous.

In my opinion the fourth reason - protection of the public, is the only good reason for imprisoning offenders.

The other four aims of punishment could be better achieved by other means - but only if the penal system was adequately resourccd., which is certainly not the case at the present time.

Don't you think we should ask why our country has so many more prisoners per head of population than nearly all other first world countries?

The death penalty is not a solution but prison sentences should not be reduced for good behaviour. Nor should several sentences run concurrently - if a life sentence has been handed down then it should mean life - you will never again know what freedom is.
Prison is not necessarily a walk in the park but it was always intended to be a punishment but when prisoners get better meals than patients in hospitals and have access to leisure activities, televisions and things brought in from home such as guitars that just makes a mockery of their so called punishment.
I just don't see the three R's of imprisonment being carried out in the justice system or the prison system at the moment.

Thank you for reminding about Hislop confronting PP Siope but I did mention near the beginning of this discussion.
I agree with your points Iam64.

Yes, the Probation Service was failing.
Recruitment is a problem.