WW 3 ..is this the reality?

Normandygirl peace does not necessarily mean not dyng and war does not mean dying. It is often a choice between which group of people die.

Do you think that if there was 'peace' in Ukraine (on what grounds? ceding even more Ukrainian territory to Russia?) that Russia would stop there? Do you not think there would be constant low grade warfare along the boundary? As I say in the post above. Do you think Russia would honour the border, and for how long.

How many Ukrainians left on the Russian side of the border would 'disappear' or be banished to punishment camps? What about the people in other countries with Russian supported enclaves, will they not be more at risk? How many Moldovan and Georgians will be threatened or die as the result of capitulating to Putin in Ukrainian.

As I said peace and war are rarely a choice between living or dying, merely of deciding which group will die and how many of them.

Katie59 In Ukraine's position would you be prepared to cede the easst coast of Britain, Northumberland down to Kent to, say, France, if they had invaded our country and tried to claim it as part of France because William The Conqueror came from Normandy and that was part of France?

Remember,Putin has already occupied and taken over the Crimea.

Even if we did broker a deal with Putin. How long do you think he would stick to it, a week, a month, a year?

Is it realistic to expect Ukraine troops to be able to force Putin's Russia out of their country?
Zelensky has said that they are fighting WW3 and it seems he could well be right. The UK and all European countries which share our values have to go on contributing arms even if it means tightening our belts somewhat.
Should that include fighter planes? Difficult both practically and politically -
how would Putin react?
As for the Turkish/Syrian earthquake, the only helpful thing we can do is send what we can to the disaster emergency fund.

“The third option is for all western leaders to put political pride to one side, sit down and talk and bring about a peaceful solution that both sides can live with.”

It seems that NATO are discounting that option, they could say to Ukraine “tough luck you are on your own”, they’re not we are encouraging Ukraine to keep fighting. NATO believes it can win a conventional war against Russia using Ukrainian manpower.

Normandygirl

I cannot believe how many couch commandos there are advocating for more death and destruction in Ukraine.
There are only 3 possible outcomes now, the war will go on for years with millions more losing their lives or it will end with the death of all of us. The third option is for all western leaders to put political pride to one side, sit down and talk and bring about a peaceful solution that both sides can live with.

Just out of interest Normandygirl, when did you become a Putin supporter? I presume you don't think we should have democracy either.

Bea65

Looking at TV coverage ...I'm feeling anxious that the more we send/spend on helping Ukraine, we're cooperating am not saying we shouldn't but just thinking how others feel about how far we go..we're already in crisis with NHS and need of financial assistance for cost of living assistance and this is too much for people's mental health

I'm avoiding the news. Perhaps not hearing bad news all the time might help your mental health?

What price is the question? Makes no difference if you are from a military family or not.

Agree Normandygirl. And no wonder some of us are truyl anxious at the moment, and has nothing to do with any anxiety disorder.

I cannot believe how many couch commandos there are advocating for more death and destruction in Ukraine
Couch commandos? Really?

Some have experience of the military, others are from military families and all are entitled to a view.
In fact, some of us remember the march across Europe by the Soviet Union.
Some may have relatives in Ukraine or adjoining countries.

Freedom comes at a price.

An anxiety disorder is about long-term and recurrent anxiety which is not based on situations which are genuinely and seriously worrying. Counselling and anti-depressants can really work there.

If people who are not normally anxious and become so because of a truly, seriously dangerous situation, that one cannot personally influence, then it is very probably NOT a disorder, but a natural reaction. Counselling might help, but anti-depressants are not the solution here. In this case, I woud call them 'happy pills' because they would dull and hide true danger.

I cannot believe how many couch commandos there are advocating for more death and destruction in Ukraine.
There are only 3 possible outcomes now, the war will go on for years with millions more losing their lives or it will end with the death of all of us. The third option is for all western leaders to put political pride to one side, sit down and talk and bring about a peaceful solution that both sides can live with.

Oh no.

Serbia is not anti-Russia.

It was reported in the papers today that the Wagner Group, backed by Russian money, is infiltrating Kosovo, currently in independent country, but once part of Serbia. Serbia wants it back, as Russia wants Ukraine.

Quietly the ground is being prepared there for the Serbs, with Russian backing to do in Kosovo what the Russians are doing in Ukraine.

It’s not just Putin though is it, if Ukraine succeeds in inflicting more serious losses on Russia are the rest of the leadership going to accept defeat and depose Putin or are they going to
mobilize forces further.
Personally I think NATO is not going to give Ukraine enough to win, now or next year NATO going to have to call Russia’s bluff.

I find when I get anxious that when I understandthe context of my fears it helps.

I have at times got desperate about the world that faces my children after I am gone, and more especially my grand children with climate change and growing unrest world wide and it was by looking at the historic context, how every generation for the last 150 years alone has always lived under a cloud that is armageddon, but has come through. That we have always lived with the fear, sometimes justified, more often not, that i could see things in a context, of, to put it grandly, my fears all being part of the human condition.

I suspect the Bea would do better with councilling than medication, that does nothing to assuage the fears.

Fleurpepper

M0nica

History never repeats itself exactly, but the same danger is there

Sorry, there is no repetition in this case, the situation is totally different. Hitler did not have nuclear weapons.

To say that anyone who is really concerned, to the point of being very anxious- about this current situation- needs to see a Doctor (and be put on 'happy pills'), so they don't think anymore, is just so wrong.

Why do you even assume that the first measure would be your disparagingly termed "happy pills". Surely we have moved on from such attitudes to mental health as yours.

I agree with every word of Monica’s post at 11.30. However recognising the truth won’t help Bea’s anxiety and I would tentatively suggest that Bea doesn’t watch too much news or read too much news at this time.
However anxious people feel, it is imperative in my opinion, that we continue to support Zelensky and Ukraine, because they are not just fighting for Ukraine, they are fighting for Europe. They must defeat Putin and that will require our full support.

while shouting loudly that he was defending Mother Russia and her helpless chickens against the aggression of the West.

Strange, isn't it, that countries under previous Russian domination for all those years are not clamouring to return to those days and those territories which have been reclaimed are under military occupation.

Callistemon21

Well, all this isn't helping Bea's anxiety one jot, is it.

Elegran Thu 09-Feb-23 21:48:09
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I don't think Bea should be reading any of this, nor should anyone else whose anxiety levels are likely to shoot up.

Having said that, I will echo Monica's post of Sat 11-Feb-23 11:30:02 "When have we ever lived without the threat of war?" or without the threat of natural and manmade disasters?

It is not that we don't believe Putin's' intentions or want to bury our heads in the sand. We know very well what Putin's ambitions are and what he is capable of - and not just him, but whichever of the Kremlin hawks succeeds him. It is because of that that we back supporting the Ukraine with all the peaceful, measured, diplomatic means at our disposal.

Given the least hint that Western forces were about to engage directly with him, I have no doubt that Putin (or his generals) would order the immediate dispatch of suicide planes in a pre-emptive strike to bomb London, Washington, Bonn, Paris - while shouting loudly that he was defending Mother Russia and her helpless chickens against the aggression of the West.

I have no doubt, either, that a lot is going on, both internationally and within previously Soviet countries, that we don't hear about, to be ready to counter any aggressive moves by Putin et al. Best we don't hear it all. If we did, so would Soviet agents.

Well, all this isn't helping Bea's anxiety one jot, is it.

Elegran Thu 09-Feb-23 21:48:09
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Nuclear weapons have nothing to do with it. Putin, like Hitler, will not stop when he has got Ukraine/Czechoslovakia, he will see it as a sign of western weakness and press on to attacking and occupying other countries. Belorus is already a client state and will be taken over when its current dictator dies.

Transnistria, part of Moldova, Abkhazia and South Osettia, parts of Georgia , are partially recognised or unrecognised regions where break away groups, funded and recognised by Russia are similar to the Donetsk area of Ukraine and if Putin is successful in Ukraine, how long before he uses the same excuses to invade occupy and recolonise those countries as well. From there it is a step through Poland into the Baltic states, Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania. All four EU and NATO members.

Russian success in Ukraine, may well encourage China to invade Taiwan - and then we will be in World War 3, with wars in Asia, Central Asia and Europe.

Of course it is something to worry about, but when has anybody not be been born into frightening times? My grandfathers grew up into, and fought in World War 1. My parents were born during WW1. They grew up under the threat of Nazi Germany and fought in WW2. I grew up during the cold war. Do you remember the Bay of Pigs and other events when the whole world held its breath over imminent (within 24 hours) destruction in a nuclear war.

Since the Cold War we have seen the Baltic states riven and devastated by genocide, 2 wars in Iraq and the Syrian conflict. All of which could have brought the Western house of cards tumbling down.

When have ever lived without the fear of war. Surely we should instead by thankful that it is only man-made conflict that threatens us. Much of Turkey is in an earthquake zone and we have seen this week what damage a major earth quake can do. Most of California lives under the threat of a comparable event and many other places. Every year we see 10s of thousands die in natural disasters; immense floods, landslips and mudslides. We should be grateful that we live in a stable part of this earth where we do not fear geological disasters that can kill people in multiple millions.

We need to count our blessings.

IMHO it's a rather pointless exercise quoting a "more extreme" crisis in order to somehow diminish one which is perceived as less so. They're both still crises, and may, as seen here, have little or no relationship to or impact on each other... although the influence of the Russian presence in Syria on Assad's negative reaction to aid to "rebel held" areas perhaps shows that links may still exist. As regards WW3, I doubt it will happen, but as Putin already appears unbalanced and totally unpredictable, and if, as reported, he is actually terminally ill, who knows what he may do as a last, defiant gasp? Nightmare scenario?

Fleurpepper

M0nica

History never repeats itself exactly, but the same danger is there

Sorry, there is no repetition in this case, the situation is totally different. Hitler did not have nuclear weapons.

To say that anyone who is really concerned, to the point of being very anxious- about this current situation- needs to see a Doctor (and be put on 'happy pills'), so they don't think anymore, is just so wrong.

No, it's not wrong at all.

No-one said anything about anti-depressants either, but someone who is living in such a state of fear so as to affect their mental health does need help.
Talking their fears over with a counsellor might help.

The term happy pills is derogatory towards those who might be in need of such help.

Being anxious or concerned is different and claiming MH problems because you feel empathy is just irrational.

Hitler did not have nuclear weapons.

And therefore Putin is more dangerous and therefore needs to be stopped. Appeasement doesn’t work, it didn’t work in the thirties and it won’t work now. Some posters appear to be okay with Putin taking Ukraine apparently. Then what next? When will he stop? And when will these posters think he needs to be stopped?
Zelensky needs more arms and he should be given whatever he needs. If not, don’t complain when Putin wages war on further countries in Europe.

M0nica

History never repeats itself exactly, but the same danger is there

Sorry, there is no repetition in this case, the situation is totally different. Hitler did not have nuclear weapons.

To say that anyone who is really concerned, to the point of being very anxious- about this current situation- needs to see a Doctor (and be put on 'happy pills'), so they don't think anymore, is just so wrong.