So you thought voter ID was straightforward?

growstuff

Oreo

Am sure that all the hoohah around the thought of an ID card is just that we haven’t had them in this country before now.
Other countries is Europe seem to manage them well enough and people accept them and find them useful.

One example of departments "talking" to each other is that DVLA can take your passport photo for a new driving licence. If DVLA can do it, there's no reason why every government department couldn't be given access.

There is no reason, that has always been the case though. But the point is it doesn’t or certainly didn’t until this current government.

However, there is no evidence that it is doing it now, certainly talking to working civil servants.

Oreo

Am sure that all the hoohah around the thought of an ID card is just that we haven’t had them in this country before now.
Other countries is Europe seem to manage them well enough and people accept them and find them useful.

I agree Oreo, though in fact we have had ID cards before - I was issued with a simple ID card when born here in 1951, which I still have though of course it’s not of any use. I fully support a requirement to have ID cards.

vegansrock

A national database / ID system does help solve some of the problems of “ illegal” migration. I would imagine some of those “libertarians” might approve of that.

Quite possibly, but then we get into the scenario of only 'slightly foreign looking people' being asked for ID, young men of Middle Eastern appearance being stopped, and stopped by who? There is potential for abuse, and potential for misinterpretation of requests for ID.

Oreo

Am sure that all the hoohah around the thought of an ID card is just that we haven’t had them in this country before now.
Other countries is Europe seem to manage them well enough and people accept them and find them useful.

As I understand it, most EU citizens are able to travel freely between Schengen countries using only their ID card. We wont be able to thanks to Brexit so citing the use of ID in other countries is not a fair comparison. Any ID issued here would only be for internal use, and that concerns me. If I want to travel, I have a passport.

HousePlantQueen

Oreo

Am sure that all the hoohah around the thought of an ID card is just that we haven’t had them in this country before now.
Other countries is Europe seem to manage them well enough and people accept them and find them useful.

As I understand it, most EU citizens are able to travel freely between Schengen countries using only their ID card. We wont be able to thanks to Brexit so citing the use of ID in other countries is not a fair comparison. Any ID issued here would only be for internal use, and that concerns me. If I want to travel, I have a passport.

Why does a supposed British ID card only being useful within the UK bother you, HPQ? Genuine question; I'm not particularly a supporter of ID cards anywhere though I can see their usefulness to government.

It bothers me because I can see no use for it, I have a passport to leave and re-enter the country, and a driving licence which shows that I am entitled to drive a vehicle. What ever else I am doing within the borders of the uk, as long as it is legal, is of no concern to the government and I would deeply resent being asked to show ID to prove that I am entitled to be here.

HousePlantQueen

It bothers me because I can see no use for it, I have a passport to leave and re-enter the country, and a driving licence which shows that I am entitled to drive a vehicle. What ever else I am doing within the borders of the uk, as long as it is legal, is of no concern to the government and I would deeply resent being asked to show ID to prove that I am entitled to be here.

Thanks. I used to feel exactly the same but everything in public life feels so 'damaged' at the moment that I've kind of slipped into a despairing who cares. I hope to emerge unscathed in due course. Meanwhile 😏

It has just occurred to me to wonder if people who are currently totally opposed to UK ID cards would feel the same if we were still in the EU?

If we had to carry ID cards it would lead on to giving the police an enforcement power to ask to see them without any other reason for a stop and search. We got rid of wartime ID cards as soon as war ended. In countries with a history of police control (and fascism, Soviet communism, Nazism) citizens have got used to being asked for 'papers' but we would be foolish to have it here. They can be used to identify groups thought undesirable, e.g., the Jews in Nazi Germany and other pre-war countries. Never again, please.

I have no objection to an ID card as I have been in the position of having to carry my passport around with me when I visited vcertain countries (such as Iran and Syria). I would not have wanted to get hauled in by the authorities in these countries for not having ID. It would save me having to pay for another passport when mine expires next year. I have to have valid ID for money exchange as I run an international business.

I do not want to find myself being asked by anyone what my intent or purpose is, if I am not breaking the law it is nobody's business but mine. If I wish to join a protest, or sign a petition, or visit a Foodbank, nobody should be able to request to see my papers to check my entitlement to be there.

Baggs

It has just occurred to me to wonder if people who are currently totally opposed to UK ID cards would feel the same if we were still in the EU?

I would Baggs.

And biglouis, I don't mind carrying my passport when abroad. That is not my country.

winterwhite

Bluebelle I was anticipating all this checking taking time at polling stations with no budget for extra staff, hence queues. Our polling station has 0 shelter from the rain.

Comparisons with countries that already have compulsory ID cards are beside the point.

An outdoor polling station, winterwhite? What do you mean?

I've never been to a polling station that had queues. Mind you, I usually vote very early.

Why are comparisons with European countries that have compulsory ID cards irrelevant? I would have thought the experience of countries similar to the UK would be very relevant. Not necessarily meaning that we need to copy them but certainly "of interest" for information's sake.

HousePlantQueen

I do not want to find myself being asked by anyone what my intent or purpose is, if I am not breaking the law it is nobody's business but mine. If I wish to join a protest, or sign a petition, or visit a Foodbank, nobody should be able to request to see my papers to check my entitlement to be there.

Hear, hear.

Baggs

HousePlantQueen

I do not want to find myself being asked by anyone what my intent or purpose is, if I am not breaking the law it is nobody's business but mine. If I wish to join a protest, or sign a petition, or visit a Foodbank, nobody should be able to request to see my papers to check my entitlement to be there.

Hear, hear.

Well you wouldn't be asked for it for those things in France either. The only time I have been asked for it is for a major financial transaction like buying a house or a car and going through border control to the UK and back (so I don't get my passport stamped). I was once stopped in a routine check by the gendarmes but my driving licence was enough then.

To, mamie. Thanks. A driving licence or passport (often both) is good for most things here.

To anyone and everyone:
Where I've come across the necessity of ID most recently is to do with the Scout Association. Adults new to scouting have to provide ID for their PVG Disclosure.

I've got the impression from previous threads on this topic on GN that only people who don't already have some kind of ID would need it at polling stations. I wouldn't object to having to obtain ID for voting if I didn't have some other form of it.

So is the main objection on this thread because there is an expectation that people would have to pay for it? And, of course, like most things, that it wouldn't be "simple"?

Forgive me if I've lost the plot.

I think the point is Baggs is that not everyone has a passport and a driving licence. All French people have a free ID card so there is equality.
We only needed passports before Brexit though we got our first residence cards before the vote as we could see which way the wind was blowing.
It isn't a big deal here - everyone has one and they are not exactly scared of going on a demo....

The Blair government wanted to introduce ID cards for everyone but there was an outcry about it and it never happened. Can’t say I have a problem with it to be honest. Why would I be bothered? I don’t do anything wrong.

Baggs

To, mamie. Thanks. A driving licence or passport (often both) is good for most things here.

To anyone and everyone:
Where I've come across the necessity of ID most recently is to do with the Scout Association. Adults new to scouting have to provide ID for their PVG Disclosure.

I've got the impression from previous threads on this topic on GN that only people who don't already have some kind of ID would need it at polling stations. I wouldn't object to having to obtain ID for voting if I didn't have some other form of it.

So is the main objection on this thread because there is an expectation that people would have to pay for it? And, of course, like most things, that it wouldn't be "simple"?

Forgive me if I've lost the plot.

The real objection is that it's a scam by the Tories to cut down voting by poorer people, the less-educated and students on the entirely bogus grounds of reducing voter fraud which investigations have shown is very, very rare.

The real objection is that it's a scam by the Tories to cut down voting by poorer people, the less-educated and students on the entirely bogus grounds of reducing voter fraud which investigations have shown is very, very rare.

I get this.

So what was and is it with Tony Blair? He's an ID fanatic. Always has been.

And to think I was glad when he got in in 1997.

The real objection is that it's a scam by the Tories to cut down voting by poorer people, the less-educated and students on the entirely bogus grounds of reducing voter fraud which investigations have shown is very, very rare.

Does it work like that in the other European countries that insist on it?

If not, why not?

We don’t know the extent of voting fraud because ID isn’t checked on voting , so there’s no way of knowing. If someone wanted to commit. Voting fraud it would be easy to do in our current set up. I’ve no objection to ID for voting but we have such a mish mash of ID ( bus passes for oldies are acceptable - student cards for youngsters aren’t - why exactly?) that a single ID card for all makes more sense. Yes I’ve lived in a country with ID cards and it made life easier and I didn’t feel I’d lost any so called liberties.

Baggs Are you against ID cards generally or ID for voting or both? They're separate issues.

Grantanow

If we had to carry ID cards it would lead on to giving the police an enforcement power to ask to see them without any other reason for a stop and search. We got rid of wartime ID cards as soon as war ended. In countries with a history of police control (and fascism, Soviet communism, Nazism) citizens have got used to being asked for 'papers' but we would be foolish to have it here. They can be used to identify groups thought undesirable, e.g., the Jews in Nazi Germany and other pre-war countries. Never again, please.

Why would it lead to such an enforcement power? The police already stop people and ask for ID.

East Germany employed a quarter of a million Stasi operatives for a population about a third of the size of the UK. It wasn't ID cards which made spying on people easier, but all the other surveillance operations.

The UK has nowhere the number of people to carry out surveillances on that scale, but if government agencies wish to target individuals, they can already track people very closely. ID cards wouldn't make any difference.