So you thought voter ID was straightforward?

Interestingly though my Spanish grandchildren have just got passports to visit the UK. They have obviously had ID cards from birth so the passports were free and created and handed over in 30 minutes.

This is why myself and DH won’t be doing election duty again after doing it for years. We did it in our small village, I dread to think of the stress doing it in a really busy polling station. Also the pay isn’t good enough for the very long day and responsibilities,

It strikes me that people most opposed to ID cards are often the same people who support massive government involvement and want massive government funding for all sorts of other things that touch our lives. It's an odd dichotomy.

Baggs

It strikes me that people most opposed to ID cards are often the same people who support massive government involvement and want massive government funding for all sorts of other things that touch our lives. It's an odd dichotomy.

Maybe you could support that assumption because I don't see it. In fact, I see the opposite (maybe not on GN). My perception is that those who oppose ID cards tend to be libertarians, who are by definition opposed to government intervention. It would be good to see some facts.

I am sure you are right about libertarians Baggs, but de facto I don't know what the absence of ID cards solves. If a police car stops you you are often asked to provide ID aren't you? If that can be passport, driving licence, bus pass, student ID or proof of address I am not sure what the difference is.
My ID card holds face ID and fingerprints so it can easily be checked. Surely a national database of fingerprints ought to help solve crime more quickly?
Obviously all or any of the above can be subject to abuse by a rogue government, but that is true of everywhere isn't it? That is why we need open democratic processes and courts of human rights.

ID per se is no big deal.

The way this rotten government is going about it is.

Baggs

It strikes me that people most opposed to ID cards are often the same people who support massive government involvement and want massive government funding for all sorts of other things that touch our lives. It's an odd dichotomy.

Don't you mean 'loony lefties' Baggs.?

Why not just say it, don't be mealy mouthed....

I cannot say, though, that I'm really enjoying living in your light touch, minimal state interventionist Nirvana.

MaizieD

Baggs

It strikes me that people most opposed to ID cards are often the same people who support massive government involvement and want massive government funding for all sorts of other things that touch our lives. It's an odd dichotomy.

Don't you mean 'loony lefties' Baggs.?

Why not just say it, don't be mealy mouthed....

I cannot say, though, that I'm really enjoying living in your light touch, minimal state interventionist Nirvana.

😄 with you there!

Whitewavemark2

ID per se is no big deal.

The way this rotten government is going about it is.

But if we all had an ID card, it wouldn't be discriminatory.

My personal feeling is that the government already has so much data about me that official ID wouldn't make much difference, apart from making it more uniform for everybody.

PS. I support government intervention, so maybe I'm the exception who proves the rule.

A national database / ID system does help solve some of the problems of “ illegal” migration. I would imagine some of those “libertarians” might approve of that.

Whitewavemark2

ID per se is no big deal.

The way this rotten government is going about it is.

Universal, state devised and implemented ID is a big deal, though. It offers unparalleled opportunity for control, discrimination and even persecution.

Mamie talking happily of 'democratic processes' and courts of human rights in the face of a UK government that is destroying the first and hell bent on removing the second seems delightfully naive...

But Maizie the government already has so much information about us - eg tax, NI number and pension/benefits information, NHS records, electoral role. I don't accept that having an ID card would give a government more control.

MaizieD

Whitewavemark2

ID per se is no big deal.

The way this rotten government is going about it is.

Universal, state devised and implemented ID is a big deal, though. It offers unparalleled opportunity for control, discrimination and even persecution.

Mamie talking happily of 'democratic processes' and courts of human rights in the face of a UK government that is destroying the first and hell bent on removing the second seems delightfully naive...

So can you give me a specific example of how ID cards increase control, discrimination and persecution?
As opposed to persecuting people because of the colour of their skin, their religion, their surname, their status as refugees?
I recognise all the dangers of the current government in the UK which is partly why I am happy to live here in France with my ID card.....

I’m all for ID cards for everyone, as other posters say, there is so much already known about us from the way we live today that a national ID card’s just an extension of this and could make life easier, including for voting purposes.Mamie makes good points about the ID card, they are useful things and most of Europe has them already I think.

MaizieD

Whitewavemark2

ID per se is no big deal.

The way this rotten government is going about it is.

Universal, state devised and implemented ID is a big deal, though. It offers unparalleled opportunity for control, discrimination and even persecution.

Mamie talking happily of 'democratic processes' and courts of human rights in the face of a UK government that is destroying the first and hell bent on removing the second seems delightfully naive...

Yes, but it absolutely depends on whether we have the type of authoritarian government that would oversee these issues.

And I take your point that it is always a danger.

growmore at the moment the various government departments do not ‘talk’ to each other, on a day to day basis, neither is there the ability to pull all this information together.

Ahem - yes, there is the ability to pull all the information together. Not only that, but if there's a need, law enforcement agencies can access other data such as bank details, phone records, utilities bills etc.

I have had to re register to vote because my ID passport and driving licence have remained in my maiden name! It was a cheaper option than applying for a new passport as that has another 2 years to run. However I do not look much like the photo from 8 years ago and am worried that I will be refused.
The palava of obtaining photo ID will put A LOT of people off not to mention the cost!

Well, I would be interested to know when this ability took place. As it certainly didn’t happen when I worked for the government.

Yes I had the ability to access bank accounts, etc, and even to enter property forcibly if necessary, but not other vital information, like political affiliation, health records, educational records etc. oh I have no doubt that the security services can have limited access to some of these, but it is extremely strictly controlled.

jenpax

I have had to re register to vote because my ID passport and driving licence have remained in my maiden name! It was a cheaper option than applying for a new passport as that has another 2 years to run. However I do not look much like the photo from 8 years ago and am worried that I will be refused.
The palava of obtaining photo ID will put A LOT of people off not to mention the cost!

You can apply for a Voter Authority Certificate, if you're concerned about your photo.

www.gov.uk/apply-for-photo-id-voter-authority-certificate

Whitewavemark2

Well, I would be interested to know when this ability took place. As it certainly didn’t happen when I worked for the government.

Yes I had the ability to access bank accounts, etc, and even to enter property forcibly if necessary, but not other vital information, like political affiliation, health records, educational records etc. oh I have no doubt that the security services can have limited access to some of these, but it is extremely strictly controlled.

I think things have moved on a lot since you last worked for the government.😁

Whitewavemark2

Well, I would be interested to know when this ability took place. As it certainly didn’t happen when I worked for the government.

Yes I had the ability to access bank accounts, etc, and even to enter property forcibly if necessary, but not other vital information, like political affiliation, health records, educational records etc. oh I have no doubt that the security services can have limited access to some of these, but it is extremely strictly controlled.

Well, it is possible now. The police and NCA can access just about all the data held about individuals. They still need to have a reason for access, so it's restricted to those who need to know. The point is that the technology and systems are already there, if the government really went rogue.

Am sure that all the hoohah around the thought of an ID card is just that we haven’t had them in this country before now.
Other countries is Europe seem to manage them well enough and people accept them and find them useful.

How would voter ID involve knowing about political affiliation?

Oreo

Am sure that all the hoohah around the thought of an ID card is just that we haven’t had them in this country before now.
Other countries is Europe seem to manage them well enough and people accept them and find them useful.

One example of departments "talking" to each other is that DVLA can take your passport photo for a new driving licence. If DVLA can do it, there's no reason why every government department couldn't be given access.

I still prefer the idea that the state has to make a positive effort to correlate all the information it has, rather than put it all in one place on an ID card. With god knows what other information it cares to put on a chip. Would we know? Would we know exactly what information about us is going on that card?