So you thought voter ID was straightforward?

It bothers me because I can see no use for it, I have a passport to leave and re-enter the country, and a driving licence which shows that I am entitled to drive a vehicle. What ever else I am doing within the borders of the uk, as long as it is legal, is of no concern to the government and I would deeply resent being asked to show ID to prove that I am entitled to be here.

HousePlantQueen

Oreo

Am sure that all the hoohah around the thought of an ID card is just that we haven’t had them in this country before now.
Other countries is Europe seem to manage them well enough and people accept them and find them useful.

As I understand it, most EU citizens are able to travel freely between Schengen countries using only their ID card. We wont be able to thanks to Brexit so citing the use of ID in other countries is not a fair comparison. Any ID issued here would only be for internal use, and that concerns me. If I want to travel, I have a passport.

Why does a supposed British ID card only being useful within the UK bother you, HPQ? Genuine question; I'm not particularly a supporter of ID cards anywhere though I can see their usefulness to government.

Oreo

Am sure that all the hoohah around the thought of an ID card is just that we haven’t had them in this country before now.
Other countries is Europe seem to manage them well enough and people accept them and find them useful.

As I understand it, most EU citizens are able to travel freely between Schengen countries using only their ID card. We wont be able to thanks to Brexit so citing the use of ID in other countries is not a fair comparison. Any ID issued here would only be for internal use, and that concerns me. If I want to travel, I have a passport.

vegansrock

A national database / ID system does help solve some of the problems of “ illegal” migration. I would imagine some of those “libertarians” might approve of that.

Quite possibly, but then we get into the scenario of only 'slightly foreign looking people' being asked for ID, young men of Middle Eastern appearance being stopped, and stopped by who? There is potential for abuse, and potential for misinterpretation of requests for ID.

Oreo

Am sure that all the hoohah around the thought of an ID card is just that we haven’t had them in this country before now.
Other countries is Europe seem to manage them well enough and people accept them and find them useful.

I agree Oreo, though in fact we have had ID cards before - I was issued with a simple ID card when born here in 1951, which I still have though of course it’s not of any use. I fully support a requirement to have ID cards.

growstuff

Oreo

Am sure that all the hoohah around the thought of an ID card is just that we haven’t had them in this country before now.
Other countries is Europe seem to manage them well enough and people accept them and find them useful.

One example of departments "talking" to each other is that DVLA can take your passport photo for a new driving licence. If DVLA can do it, there's no reason why every government department couldn't be given access.

There is no reason, that has always been the case though. But the point is it doesn’t or certainly didn’t until this current government.

However, there is no evidence that it is doing it now, certainly talking to working civil servants.

I still prefer the idea that the state has to make a positive effort to correlate all the information it has, rather than put it all in one place on an ID card. With god knows what other information it cares to put on a chip. Would we know? Would we know exactly what information about us is going on that card?

Oreo

Am sure that all the hoohah around the thought of an ID card is just that we haven’t had them in this country before now.
Other countries is Europe seem to manage them well enough and people accept them and find them useful.

One example of departments "talking" to each other is that DVLA can take your passport photo for a new driving licence. If DVLA can do it, there's no reason why every government department couldn't be given access.

How would voter ID involve knowing about political affiliation?

Am sure that all the hoohah around the thought of an ID card is just that we haven’t had them in this country before now.
Other countries is Europe seem to manage them well enough and people accept them and find them useful.

Whitewavemark2

Well, I would be interested to know when this ability took place. As it certainly didn’t happen when I worked for the government.

Yes I had the ability to access bank accounts, etc, and even to enter property forcibly if necessary, but not other vital information, like political affiliation, health records, educational records etc. oh I have no doubt that the security services can have limited access to some of these, but it is extremely strictly controlled.

Well, it is possible now. The police and NCA can access just about all the data held about individuals. They still need to have a reason for access, so it's restricted to those who need to know. The point is that the technology and systems are already there, if the government really went rogue.

Whitewavemark2

Well, I would be interested to know when this ability took place. As it certainly didn’t happen when I worked for the government.

Yes I had the ability to access bank accounts, etc, and even to enter property forcibly if necessary, but not other vital information, like political affiliation, health records, educational records etc. oh I have no doubt that the security services can have limited access to some of these, but it is extremely strictly controlled.

I think things have moved on a lot since you last worked for the government.😁

jenpax

I have had to re register to vote because my ID passport and driving licence have remained in my maiden name! It was a cheaper option than applying for a new passport as that has another 2 years to run. However I do not look much like the photo from 8 years ago and am worried that I will be refused.
The palava of obtaining photo ID will put A LOT of people off not to mention the cost!

You can apply for a Voter Authority Certificate, if you're concerned about your photo.

www.gov.uk/apply-for-photo-id-voter-authority-certificate

Well, I would be interested to know when this ability took place. As it certainly didn’t happen when I worked for the government.

Yes I had the ability to access bank accounts, etc, and even to enter property forcibly if necessary, but not other vital information, like political affiliation, health records, educational records etc. oh I have no doubt that the security services can have limited access to some of these, but it is extremely strictly controlled.

I have had to re register to vote because my ID passport and driving licence have remained in my maiden name! It was a cheaper option than applying for a new passport as that has another 2 years to run. However I do not look much like the photo from 8 years ago and am worried that I will be refused.
The palava of obtaining photo ID will put A LOT of people off not to mention the cost!

Ahem - yes, there is the ability to pull all the information together. Not only that, but if there's a need, law enforcement agencies can access other data such as bank details, phone records, utilities bills etc.

MaizieD

Whitewavemark2

ID per se is no big deal.

The way this rotten government is going about it is.

Universal, state devised and implemented ID is a big deal, though. It offers unparalleled opportunity for control, discrimination and even persecution.

Mamie talking happily of 'democratic processes' and courts of human rights in the face of a UK government that is destroying the first and hell bent on removing the second seems delightfully naive...

Yes, but it absolutely depends on whether we have the type of authoritarian government that would oversee these issues.

And I take your point that it is always a danger.

growmore at the moment the various government departments do not ‘talk’ to each other, on a day to day basis, neither is there the ability to pull all this information together.

I’m all for ID cards for everyone, as other posters say, there is so much already known about us from the way we live today that a national ID card’s just an extension of this and could make life easier, including for voting purposes.Mamie makes good points about the ID card, they are useful things and most of Europe has them already I think.

MaizieD

Whitewavemark2

ID per se is no big deal.

The way this rotten government is going about it is.

Universal, state devised and implemented ID is a big deal, though. It offers unparalleled opportunity for control, discrimination and even persecution.

Mamie talking happily of 'democratic processes' and courts of human rights in the face of a UK government that is destroying the first and hell bent on removing the second seems delightfully naive...

So can you give me a specific example of how ID cards increase control, discrimination and persecution?
As opposed to persecuting people because of the colour of their skin, their religion, their surname, their status as refugees?
I recognise all the dangers of the current government in the UK which is partly why I am happy to live here in France with my ID card.....

But Maizie the government already has so much information about us - eg tax, NI number and pension/benefits information, NHS records, electoral role. I don't accept that having an ID card would give a government more control.

Whitewavemark2

ID per se is no big deal.

The way this rotten government is going about it is.

Universal, state devised and implemented ID is a big deal, though. It offers unparalleled opportunity for control, discrimination and even persecution.

Mamie talking happily of 'democratic processes' and courts of human rights in the face of a UK government that is destroying the first and hell bent on removing the second seems delightfully naive...

A national database / ID system does help solve some of the problems of “ illegal” migration. I would imagine some of those “libertarians” might approve of that.

Whitewavemark2

ID per se is no big deal.

The way this rotten government is going about it is.

But if we all had an ID card, it wouldn't be discriminatory.

My personal feeling is that the government already has so much data about me that official ID wouldn't make much difference, apart from making it more uniform for everybody.

PS. I support government intervention, so maybe I'm the exception who proves the rule.

MaizieD

Baggs

It strikes me that people most opposed to ID cards are often the same people who support massive government involvement and want massive government funding for all sorts of other things that touch our lives. It's an odd dichotomy.

Don't you mean 'loony lefties' Baggs.?

Why not just say it, don't be mealy mouthed....

I cannot say, though, that I'm really enjoying living in your light touch, minimal state interventionist Nirvana.

😄 with you there!

Baggs

It strikes me that people most opposed to ID cards are often the same people who support massive government involvement and want massive government funding for all sorts of other things that touch our lives. It's an odd dichotomy.

Don't you mean 'loony lefties' Baggs.?

Why not just say it, don't be mealy mouthed....

I cannot say, though, that I'm really enjoying living in your light touch, minimal state interventionist Nirvana.