Politics are moderating in the U.K.

Hmm.
This Corbyn debacle isn’t going anywhere any time soon.

“JEREMY CORBYN has vowed to fight the next election as a Labour MP after Sir Keir Starmer announced he would be barred from standing for the party.

The former leader said his successor’s decision to bar his candidacy was a “flagrant attack on the democratic rights of members”.

Feeling are running high in his Islington constituency!

argymargy

That may be so, but they’ll have to convince the electorate, who seem anything but moderate now.

I'm not sure how you can claim that when, despite the populist red meat that the tories are throwing at the electorate; 'illegal migrants in small boats, clamping down on some protests', unions bringing the country to its knees;, the 'anti-woke' agenda, the opinion polls are consistently showing the tories 20%age points or more behind Labour.

MaizieD

Whitewavemark2

The left are traditionally anti- EU.

But 66% of Labour voters voted Remain.

Yes I know that, but if you look at Labour over the years, the left wing was always Euro-sceptic.

Look at Tony Benn - he was typical of that wing. Corbyn was a Bennite through and through, so was always going to be Tory sceptic.

Not Tory sceptic but EU sceptic😄. Well he was both really.

Urmstongran

Hmm.
This Corbyn debacle isn’t going anywhere any time soon.

“JEREMY CORBYN has vowed to fight the next election as a Labour MP after Sir Keir Starmer announced he would be barred from standing for the party.

The former leader said his successor’s decision to bar his candidacy was a “flagrant attack on the democratic rights of members”.

Feeling are running high in his Islington constituency!

Don’t be taken in by bluss and blunder (is that even a word?) but Corbyn does not have the whip, nor will he be funded by the LP. Any political party is entirely within its rights to refuse membership. The Tory party have got rid of dozens of people these past couple of years or so.

He is of course entirely free to stand as an independent, or even start a left wing political party.

Now that would be democracy 🙂

Whitewavemark2

I see the ECHR has taken labour off the “ watch list” because they are satisfied that Starmer has done enough to rid the party of the anti-semitism that was so rife.

More moves to moderation

Why is the EHRC letting Labour get away with overtly anti-Semitic expulsions of Jews?

Kier Starmer
Anti semitism is a genuine threat to real people across the world.
Never seen anyone more talentless, uninspiring, uncharismatic, insipid, insignificant, mediocre and untrustworthy than you in politics but hey don’t worry those qualities make you just good enough as a Tory.

It isn’t an excuse to purge Labour of left-wing Jews.

The Report found that there was no more anti semitism in labour than the other parties. The right worked against their leader to stop him wining elections and weaponised anti semitism

argymargy

That may be so, but they’ll have to convince the electorate, who seem anything but moderate now.

I think, if you read the article, it suggests that it it the electorate who are losing patience with personality and single issue politics. I don't think I have ever read an article in the Economist that tells people how to think. It is much more about reporting on what trends are happening and what outcomes that may mean. It is far above the comic structure of the Daily Mail.

Rishi Sunak is a reaction to Mr Johnson and Liz Truss. His pitch is based on managerial competence rather than cartoonish radicalism. As public support for Brexit wanes, he is building bridges with the EU. Ms Truss wanted to dynamite orthodoxy; Mr Sunak is keen to work with institutions. The choice facing the British electorate next time will almost certainly be between two uncharismatic pragmatists with great hair—the opposite of Mr Johnson.

The article does warn, that although populism may have peaked, it is far from dead, citing Brexiteers as an ongoing problem as they try to take over spaces left by some of the populists.

It also points out that moderation and the gradualist approach may not be enough to meet the challenge of Britain’s woeful productivity or to overhaul its creaking public services. Even so the author sees competence as becoming more important to people than ideology.

I think if either party supported the nurses they would win the next election.

Ilovecheese

I think if either party supported the nurses they would win the next election.

I'm not sure how Labour could Ilovecheese. What could they offer?

Politics are more moderate recently, Starmer has quietened his left wingers and Sunak has sidelined most of the old guard that became unpopular. That is not to say that all his ministers or policies are moderate, but there is more party discipline, sacking Zahawi made it plain behavior has to be beyond reproach.

Katie59

Politics are more moderate recently, Starmer has quietened his left wingers and Sunak has sidelined most of the old guard that became unpopular. That is not to say that all his ministers or policies are moderate, but there is more party discipline, sacking Zahawi made it plain behavior has to be beyond reproach.

Really? 🙄

Just wait 'til he makes a move to the EU that the Brexit loons don't like...

MaizieD

Katie59

Politics are more moderate recently, Starmer has quietened his left wingers and Sunak has sidelined most of the old guard that became unpopular. That is not to say that all his ministers or policies are moderate, but there is more party discipline, sacking Zahawi made it plain behavior has to be beyond reproach.

Really? 🙄

Just wait 'til he makes a move to the EU that the Brexit loons don't like...

Sunak is not likely to even dream about any EU concessions he is going in the opposite direction

I wonder if the huge bureaucracy we have built up in the UK will tend to rumble on which ever party is in power?
Is it even possible to introduce fewer structures in our main institutions?
Is moderation a nostalgic wish?

Whitewavemark2

Urmstongran

Hmm.
This Corbyn debacle isn’t going anywhere any time soon.

“JEREMY CORBYN has vowed to fight the next election as a Labour MP after Sir Keir Starmer announced he would be barred from standing for the party.

The former leader said his successor’s decision to bar his candidacy was a “flagrant attack on the democratic rights of members”.

Feeling are running high in his Islington constituency!

Don’t be taken in by bluss and blunder (is that even a word?) but Corbyn does not have the whip, nor will he be funded by the LP. Any political party is entirely within its rights to refuse membership. The Tory party have got rid of dozens of people these past couple of years or so.

He is of course entirely free to stand as an independent, or even start a left wing political party.

Now that would be democracy 🙂

So the local members of the political party who have over many years shown their support for the MP should have no say in who represents that party, but one man, who seems to merely adjust and alter his beliefs according to what he imagines will make him popular, can decide for them. The NEC agreed to end Corbyn's suspension, but Starmer refused to readmit him. What is democratic about that?

I notice that this thread seems to have an over emphasis on the position of the LP on Brexit. Perhaps because nothing is on offer in UK politics now that isn't right wing or far right wing and moderate isn't really moderate at all just watered down Toryism

Glorianny

I notice that this thread seems to have an over emphasis on the position of the LP on Brexit. Perhaps because nothing is on offer in UK politics now that isn't right wing or far right wing and moderate isn't really moderate at all just watered down Toryism

You might feel that it's 'overemphasis', Glorianny, but I think it was Corbyn's hubris that delivered us into the hands of the current appalling government. He threw away a good political position because, a) he wanted Brexit and b) he was misled by the chanting and adoration into thinking that he had his finger on the political pulse of the country.

He betrayed the Remain voting majority of Labour voters and scared the more centrist, conservative (small 'c'), Labour voters with his messianic followers.

Of course the RW media didn't help, but neither did his lack of political acumen.

I don't enjoy the current Labour caution and I think their grasp of economics is poor (but that goes for all the parties), but I don't see them as watered down tories; I see concern for a wider cross section of society than ever the tories have displayed and I see potential for promoting the sort of mixed economy the country was comfortable with until Thatcher set about destroying it.

Time will tell. But you won't get any improvement unless the LP is actually in power.

Glorianny

Whitewavemark2

Urmstongran

Hmm.
This Corbyn debacle isn’t going anywhere any time soon.

“JEREMY CORBYN has vowed to fight the next election as a Labour MP after Sir Keir Starmer announced he would be barred from standing for the party.

The former leader said his successor’s decision to bar his candidacy was a “flagrant attack on the democratic rights of members”.

Feeling are running high in his Islington constituency!

Don’t be taken in by bluss and blunder (is that even a word?) but Corbyn does not have the whip, nor will he be funded by the LP. Any political party is entirely within its rights to refuse membership. The Tory party have got rid of dozens of people these past couple of years or so.

He is of course entirely free to stand as an independent, or even start a left wing political party.

Now that would be democracy 🙂

So the local members of the political party who have over many years shown their support for the MP should have no say in who represents that party, but one man, who seems to merely adjust and alter his beliefs according to what he imagines will make him popular, can decide for them. The NEC agreed to end Corbyn's suspension, but Starmer refused to readmit him. What is democratic about that?

Then if Corbyn thinks he has the backing he should stand as an independent.

The LP has decided that Corbyn rightly or wrongly no longer reflects its values.

Corbyn could prove to the LP that his values are respected and win as an independent.

Corbyn may well be an honest, committed and principled politician, but proved to be a very ineffective leader, he has had his day he should retire gracefully

Glorianny

I notice that this thread seems to have an over emphasis on the position of the LP on Brexit. Perhaps because nothing is on offer in UK politics now that isn't right wing or far right wing and moderate isn't really moderate at all just watered down Toryism

Great reply from Maizie, thanks.

No over-emphasis- it is a massively important issue. Brexit has proven to be even more of a disaster than predicted- and solutions have to be found. Corbyn won't!

Maisie

“I see potential for promoting the sort of mixed economy the country was comfortable with until Thatcher set about destroying it.”

100% support that goal.

Whitewavemark2

Glorianny

Whitewavemark2

Urmstongran

Hmm.
This Corbyn debacle isn’t going anywhere any time soon.

“JEREMY CORBYN has vowed to fight the next election as a Labour MP after Sir Keir Starmer announced he would be barred from standing for the party.

The former leader said his successor’s decision to bar his candidacy was a “flagrant attack on the democratic rights of members”.

Feeling are running high in his Islington constituency!

Don’t be taken in by bluss and blunder (is that even a word?) but Corbyn does not have the whip, nor will he be funded by the LP. Any political party is entirely within its rights to refuse membership. The Tory party have got rid of dozens of people these past couple of years or so.

He is of course entirely free to stand as an independent, or even start a left wing political party.

Now that would be democracy 🙂

So the local members of the political party who have over many years shown their support for the MP should have no say in who represents that party, but one man, who seems to merely adjust and alter his beliefs according to what he imagines will make him popular, can decide for them. The NEC agreed to end Corbyn's suspension, but Starmer refused to readmit him. What is democratic about that?

Then if Corbyn thinks he has the backing he should stand as an independent.

The LP has decided that Corbyn rightly or wrongly no longer reflects its values.

Corbyn could prove to the LP that his values are respected and win as an independent.

WWMk2 which LP is that? The LP NEC restored Corbyn to full membership of the LP. Only Starmer withheld the whip. As I said it isn't a party decison it is one man's decision and how is that democratic?
Incidentally one of Starmer's promises when he became leader was that he would unite the party. If Islington is an example of that he is manifestly breaking his word.

MaizieD

Glorianny

I notice that this thread seems to have an over emphasis on the position of the LP on Brexit. Perhaps because nothing is on offer in UK politics now that isn't right wing or far right wing and moderate isn't really moderate at all just watered down Toryism

You might feel that it's 'overemphasis', Glorianny, but I think it was Corbyn's hubris that delivered us into the hands of the current appalling government. He threw away a good political position because, a) he wanted Brexit and b) he was misled by the chanting and adoration into thinking that he had his finger on the political pulse of the country.

He betrayed the Remain voting majority of Labour voters and scared the more centrist, conservative (small 'c'), Labour voters with his messianic followers.

Of course the RW media didn't help, but neither did his lack of political acumen.

I don't enjoy the current Labour caution and I think their grasp of economics is poor (but that goes for all the parties), but I don't see them as watered down tories; I see concern for a wider cross section of society than ever the tories have displayed and I see potential for promoting the sort of mixed economy the country was comfortable with until Thatcher set about destroying it.

Time will tell. But you won't get any improvement unless the LP is actually in power.

Actually it was most probably the right wing of the LP who delivered us into the position of having this government. Had they fully backed Corbyn, not worked internally to undermine him and provided the necessary support in 2017 there might well have been a Labour government and no need for the 2019 GE. Corbyn threw nothing away, although possibly the LP right wing were happier to see Johnson installed in No 10 than they would have been to see Corbyn. Internal party politics, controlled by unelected party officials, rewarded for their actions by the present Labour leader, being what really gave us this government.
It's a far more worrying scenario for democratic politics, but much easier to blame one man.

Incidentally anyone who attended any LP meeting in the run up to the 2019 election would have heard the phrase "The LP is not a leave or a remain party, it is a socialist party."
The pity is that the people who really needed that party and those politics were sold down the river by a snake-oil salesman, who promised the streets would be paved with gold once Brexit got done.

I thought that Corbyn was good in the televised hustings that I watched. The LP policies at the last GE were also good.
Unfortunately Corbyn's method or dealing with the various political interviewers on tv was dire. He became angry very quickly and that is no way to deal with the likes of Andrew Neil et al.

I watched Starmer's announcement concerning anti semitism and thought he spoke very eloquently and dealt with the reporters in a civilised and friendly manner.

It's interesting how people watching the same broadcast can have such differing opinions.

Dinahmo

I thought that Corbyn was good in the televised hustings that I watched. The LP policies at the last GE were also good.
Unfortunately Corbyn's method or dealing with the various political interviewers on tv was dire. He became angry very quickly and that is no way to deal with the likes of Andrew Neil et al.

I watched Starmer's announcement concerning anti semitism and thought he spoke very eloquently and dealt with the reporters in a civilised and friendly manner.

It's interesting how people watching the same broadcast can have such differing opinions.

That's true Starmer always looks shifty to me. He is I can see trying his best but there is always too much of the lawyer about him for me. I'd just like o see a bit of passion and some commitment to LP values. If he went and stood with the striking nurses I'd have a lot more respect for him