Politics are moderating in the U.K.

It also seems extrordinary to me that a party which has had complaints from Jews is now cleared of anti-semitism. policymogul.com/key-updates/13485/-large-and-growing-number-of-jewish-members-of-labour-party-suspended-or-investigated-over-antisemitism-
Seems very odd that Jews can be suspended for antisemitism.

The way he won't even support the nurses, after all they did for us, makes me want to weep.

Ilovecheese

The way he won't even support the nurses, after all they did for us, makes me want to weep.

In that case you clearly need to re-read what he’s actually said, instead of letting your emotions and prejudices get the better of you.

It's not prejudice, although I do feel emotional about it. I am one of the gullible fools who voted for him as leader because I believed he would keep the pledges he made.
I am just so disappointed.

When has it been wrong to be emotional about politics? Maybe that's what's wrong with things today. The only emotion permissible is hate and anger by the far right. Those of us who care are just supposed to pretend it's all cerebral when it's obvious some passionate care and consideration is what is needed.

Which government do you think the nurses would be better off under?

While the obvious answer might once have been Labour, as things are at the moment, I wouldn't be too sure. I would not put it past the Conservatives to offer them a pay rise higher than Labour would, just prior to the next election.
I think that is why Labour are reluctant to give a figure that they would offer, if in Government, because they are afraid that the current Government would top it.

Ilovecheese

The way he won't even support the nurses, after all they did for us, makes me want to weep.

I've a feeling you need either your eyes or your ears or possibly both, testing. Or you simply like making up what has been said - when it hasn't.

Starmer has supported the nurses. He isn't in power so he can't change their incomes.

Am I the only Conservative voter on GRANSNET? The vast majority of voters here seem to be Labour or SNP if you live in Scotland. I am also currently disillusioned with my own party and think it is time for Labour to be in government. I find this thread very one sided. Starmer is looking to get support from the Red Wall and therefore he realises that to gain confidence he must convince those former Labour voters that the UK will not rejoin the EU under his government. As for Corbyn I expect the strong Labour support in Islington will have the funds for him to continue as their MP. Why is the left here so one eyed? Anyone who despairs of the lack of controlled immigration is deemed as right wing and in some quarters as racist. The cost to the country of allowing the current system to continue is not good and obviously the recent Home Secretaries have been a disaster. Why the Home Office fails to make decisions on asylum applications is a complete mystery. Then I am not convinced that bringing so many people from Muslim countries will not impact our tolerant culture. No feminist can surely be happy that women could lose safe spaces to trans men who have not undergone surgical intervention. If only Nicola Sturgeon had realised that her gender recognition legislation was a step too far I have no doubt she would still be the SNP leader, I am interested in following who will take over her place. I find myself in a very small minority here. And I am interested as to why that is. I am not very right wing and am certainly not a racist. But I do not vote Labour. I mainly find Lib Democrats are very good at local government and my vote went to them when I was in London. Is there anyone else here who does not always vote Labour?

Glorianny

It also seems extrordinary to me that a party which has had complaints from Jews is now cleared of anti-semitism. policymogul.com/key-updates/13485/-large-and-growing-number-of-jewish-members-of-labour-party-suspended-or-investigated-over-antisemitism-
Seems very odd that Jews can be suspended for antisemitism.

I have many Jewish friends who are totally anti- zionism, and totally denounce the behaviour of Israel towards Palestine. You can be anti-zionism and not at all antisemitic- like me for instance and many others I know.

I am sure you are not the only Conservative on Gransnet Anniel but maybe as the Conservatives are in power at the moment, their supporters don't feel the need to discuss it as much?
I don't feel very strongly about immigration, so many of us are descendants of people who have moved here as refugees, or just to seek a better life. It would be good if decisions could be made more quickly and people be able to settle and work sooner, but it is a very serious decision, whether someone should be able to stay or not and shouldn't be rushed.

Spot on Fleurpepper, they are not the same thing, but Keir Starmer does seem to confuse them.

^ Is there anyone else here who does not always vote Labour?^

Me, Anniel.

Not until I grew older and the Lib Dems did dreadful things when in coalition with the tories.

Glorianny

When has it been wrong to be emotional about politics? Maybe that's what's wrong with things today. The only emotion permissible is hate and anger by the far right. Those of us who care are just supposed to pretend it's all cerebral when it's obvious some passionate care and consideration is what is needed.

Being emotional is understandable if you have employed your reason first and recognised when your views are on the extreme edges and you are frustrated, but that doesn’t mean you should attempt to foist them on the electorate when it’s clear they don’t share those views. Hate and anger by the far left is no more acceptable than the same by the far right.

I take great exception to the implication that others don’t care, which is errant nonsense. Others care, and see that the way to achieve a better society is through planned change not revolution.

DaisyAnne

Ilovecheese

The way he won't even support the nurses, after all they did for us, makes me want to weep.

I've a feeling you need either your eyes or your ears or possibly both, testing. Or you simply like making up what has been said - when it hasn't.

Starmer has supported the nurses. He isn't in power so he can't change their incomes.

Three times he refused to say he would stand on picket lines with them www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/keir-starmer-labour-nhs-nurses-strike-picket-b2197178.html
How is that "supporting them"?

Casdon

Glorianny

When has it been wrong to be emotional about politics? Maybe that's what's wrong with things today. The only emotion permissible is hate and anger by the far right. Those of us who care are just supposed to pretend it's all cerebral when it's obvious some passionate care and consideration is what is needed.

Being emotional is understandable if you have employed your reason first and recognised when your views are on the extreme edges and you are frustrated, but that doesn’t mean you should attempt to foist them on the electorate when it’s clear they don’t share those views. Hate and anger by the far left is no more acceptable than the same by the far right.

I take great exception to the implication that others don’t care, which is errant nonsense. Others care, and see that the way to achieve a better society is through planned change not revolution.

Casdon you accused ilovecheese of letting her emotions get the better of her, because of her views on the nurses.
It isn't planning Starmr needs, he has heaps of that. Unfortunately he's singularly lacking in emotion or passion.
They appeal to the public. It's one thing Blair knew (and so did Boris)

No Glorianny I said ilovecheese had let her emotions get the better of her because her antipathy meant she hadn’t read what Starmer actually said, which was not as she portrayed it. I’ve had enough of histrionic politics. I want somebody who is a grown up, quiet, efficient, caring , has credibility outside the UK, and will deliver what they say they will. You don’t have to be a table thumper or an orator to deliver, and delivery is what wins respect. That might not be what the public thinks it wants, being used to charlatans recently, but it’s definitely what is needed.

MaizieD

^ Is there anyone else here who does not always vote Labour?^

Me, Anniel.

Not until I grew older and the Lib Dems did dreadful things when in coalition with the tories.

Me Aniel.. I vote Green because I am lucky enough to have Caroline Lucas as my MP... though she is a lone voice she has really strong ethics and is always a voice of reason. If I didn't live in her constituency I would vote Labour.

Keir Starmer made pledges to those he wanted to support him
Those pledges did not sound like "revolution".
People like me gave him his position based on those pledges, believing him to be honest.
No wonder I feel emotional, not hate, anger yes, but mainly just let down and made a fool of.

PersonallyI've had enough of leaders who will promise anything to gain power and deliver nothing when they get it. Sadly Starmer seems to be proving that's the sort of bloke he is.

Well I feel better for having let off a bit of steam. Thank you for your responses.

Casdon

No Glorianny I said ilovecheese had let her emotions get the better of her because her antipathy meant she hadn’t read what Starmer actually said, which was not as she portrayed it. I’ve had enough of histrionic politics. I want somebody who is a grown up, quiet, efficient, caring , has credibility outside the UK, and will deliver what they say they will. You don’t have to be a table thumper or an orator to deliver, and delivery is what wins respect. That might not be what the public thinks it wants, being used to charlatans recently, but it’s definitely what is needed.

That sounds like a plan Casdon. I wish/hope for that too.

Glorianny

DaisyAnne

Ilovecheese

The way he won't even support the nurses, after all they did for us, makes me want to weep.

I've a feeling you need either your eyes or your ears or possibly both, testing. Or you simply like making up what has been said - when it hasn't.

Starmer has supported the nurses. He isn't in power so he can't change their incomes.

Three times he refused to say he would stand on picket lines with them www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/keir-starmer-labour-nhs-nurses-strike-picket-b2197178.html
How is that "supporting them"?

How would it be "supporting" them.

Would it get the NHS more money and a better system? Would it stop people leaving the NHS? Would it do anything but gather a few extremist votes to get him and his government into power where he could actually do something?

No. It would be as useful as a chocolate fireguard.

DaisyAnne

Glorianny

DaisyAnne

Ilovecheese

The way he won't even support the nurses, after all they did for us, makes me want to weep.

I've a feeling you need either your eyes or your ears or possibly both, testing. Or you simply like making up what has been said - when it hasn't.

Starmer has supported the nurses. He isn't in power so he can't change their incomes.

Three times he refused to say he would stand on picket lines with them www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/keir-starmer-labour-nhs-nurses-strike-picket-b2197178.html
How is that "supporting them"?

How would it be "supporting" them.

Would it get the NHS more money and a better system? Would it stop people leaving the NHS? Would it do anything but gather a few extremist votes to get him and his government into power where he could actually do something?

No. It would be as useful as a chocolate fireguard.

I'm sure the nurses standing on picket lines would regard Starmer's presence as better than "a chocolate fireguard" it might give them confidence that under Labour things would change. But maybe that's why he won't do it, because they won't.
There's a saying about justice needing to be seen to be done. In this case Starmer's commitment needs to be seen to be done.

I think you are right about that Gloryannie It would show his commitment to helping them achieve a proper pay rise.