Is there no end to Johnson's high self regard and vanity?

Vintagenonna

Pity Boris has teeth.

Otherwise he could apply for the job 'Worlds Biggest A**hole'.

And get it.

Oooooh, clutch my pearls!

Might just appeal to the masochistic tendency, Vintenonna

Pity Boris has teeth.

Otherwise he could apply for the job 'Worlds Biggest A**hole'.

And get it.

maddyone You misunderstood. I made no comparison. It was a response to GrammyGrammy who wanted Boris back because he had charisma. I was merely pointing out that the people I mentioned had charisma, as well as the villains mentioned by another poster.

We were simply pointing out charisma, of itself, is meaningless. It is the qualities that go with it that make the good politician or saint.

As for Putin, he came up through the system and the secret service. He didn't need charisma, just ruthlessness and a willingness to dispose of the opposition and reward his supporters generously.

Russia has no experience of democracy. Elections have always been rigged by controlling, by means, fair or foul, who stands in elections and their access to the media.

Conforming to a set of rules, yes, we know he doesn’t do that. That’s a justified criticism.

Does Putin have charisma then? It’s eluded me if he has.
I’m not sure you can reasonably compare Johnson to Hitler, Stalin, or Castro, or indeed Putin. We all are fully aware of the things Johnson did or didn’t do that he should have or shouldn’t have done, but if comparisons of him and Hitler or Stalin or Putin are made, then I’m afraid the discussion descends into the ridiculous and isn’t worth wasting time on.

MaizieD

*Because the Telegraph is read by officers, the Daily Mail by soldiers. If only life were so simple.^

Fascinating. I know several ex soldiers, including officers. Their view of Johnson is not a rosy one..

It’s about a disciplined existence. Conforming to a set of rules. Understanding that you have to follow those rules even when you don’t like them.

Well, that totally eliminates the top party goer of 2021, then, doesn't it? 😂

Wasn’t it Tom Tugendhat, during the leadership election, that said Johnson was a liar? And doesn’t he have links to the military?

M0nica

hugshelp and a lot of those you name were able to commit their crimes because they were convincing liars, cheats and conmen.

You could add to that list a whole host of political dictators from Hitler and Stalin to Castro and Peron and Papa Doc, not to mention every other tinpot dictator known to bad government world wide. They got into power because they had charisma and then, at best, ruined the economy of the country they governed and plunged its people into poverty, or turned out to be a vicious violent and corrupt megalomaniacs who lined the pockets of their family and associates to the ruin of their country.

Is this what you had in mind GrammyGrammy?

Mmm. Who does that sound like ...

Oreo

Find myself wondering if Mrs Sunak likes the gold wallpaper.

Mr and Mrs Sunak live in the 10 Downing Street flat and have paid for their own redecorating. Mr and Mrs Hunt are in the Johnson’s former flat.

hugshelp and a lot of those you name were able to commit their crimes because they were convincing liars, cheats and conmen.

You could add to that list a whole host of political dictators from Hitler and Stalin to Castro and Peron and Papa Doc, not to mention every other tinpot dictator known to bad government world wide. They got into power because they had charisma and then, at best, ruined the economy of the country they governed and plunged its people into poverty, or turned out to be a vicious violent and corrupt megalomaniacs who lined the pockets of their family and associates to the ruin of their country.

Is this what you had in mind GrammyGrammy?

*Because the Telegraph is read by officers, the Daily Mail by soldiers. If only life were so simple.^

Fascinating. I know several ex soldiers, including officers. Their view of Johnson is not a rosy one..

It’s about a disciplined existence. Conforming to a set of rules. Understanding that you have to follow those rules even when you don’t like them.

Well, that totally eliminates the top party goer of 2021, then, doesn't it? 😂

ExperiencedNotOld

Left or right in politics aside, I too would welcome Boris back, for his charisma if nothing else. Like it or loathe it, take it or leave it, he got on with people and got them to do things. He’s not the fool you might think.
I suggest a lot of the expressed dislike connects back to the loss of the vote to remain, and the fact he achieved what wasn’t wanted - or managed by Cameron or May, the separation from Europe.
Charisma is in short supply, albeit Rishi seems to be shaping up. I don’t see much elsewhere in UK politics, do you?

A list of people known to be highly charismatic:

Charles Shobhraj
Richard Ramirez
Ted Bundy
Paul John Knowles
Jeffrey Dahmer
Vera Renczi
Charles Manson
Dennis Nilsen

I prefer to deal with people who have integrity and empathy in their skill set.

Find myself wondering if Mrs Sunak likes the gold wallpaper.

GrammyGrammy

I would welcome Boris back as PM in a heartbeat. But then some of us are not leftie zombies, can think for ourselves and don't get brainwashed by the press as readily as those of you who were jibby jabbed and fell for the daily drip of anti-Boris stories. Boris at least tried to stand up against the enemies of this country.

Please tell me you're trolling.

Oreo

I doubt Boris will be leading NATO but I wouldn’t write him off in British politics just yet either.

Crikey, neither would I . I think the NATO position may be out of reach but he is a dangerously ambitious man with, to my mind, dangerous paymasters.

Dickens

... just for clarification. I am not a left-winger.

And if my traditional-Conservative-voting friends and acquaintances (that includes both the Remain and Brexit camps) are anything to set any store by, their dislike of him is not borne from any left-wing ideology, rather that they feel he has betrayed the principles of Parliamentary democracy, and brought the Party into disrepute.

And as for "traitor-like support", I think Boris Johnson himself has some questions that still need to be answered about his association with Russian oligarchs. He personally, initially, prevented the publication of a parliamentary report on allegations of Russian interference in British politics. A report which our intelligence agencies had actively supported to be released ahead of the general election. Why? Of course, it was released in July 2020 - heavily redacted.

My personal dislike of the man is in no way connected to any 'leftie' ideology. I think he is a dangerous, loose cannon, totally consumed by his personal ambition. And far from his being a 'fool', I believe he's a very clever manipulator.

Totally agree.

He paid the price because of his own Party, not lefties. Because he was corrupt and ineffective, ultimately. He greatly damaged the belief in the democratic process in our country.

...and then went on holiday, again, whilst still PM and the country waited desperately for issues to be addressed. 160,000 people then decided who would follow, and wow what a choice they made, wrecking the ability of those trying to buy a house and shaking our whole future.

Further disillusion of voters

To feed his ego, he then re-appears in the Ukraine to warm his egotistical need for adulation.

I doubt Boris will be leading NATO but I wouldn’t write him off in British politics just yet either.

I don't believe ENO works in defence, sorry. For one thing, too much blabbing, no discretion, complete lack of ability to see the importance of loyalty, honesty and integrity against so called charisma. My brother was a senior officer within the RMP and he would never have posted such nonsense. My Brexit friends and Tory voting friends are all, without exception, disgusted by Johnson, moral codes and standards are cross party, cross referendum result. Oh and it is deeply offensive to be called a traitor by somebody who supports the greatest traitor this country has seen since Philby and MacLean.

Casdon

ExperiencedNotOld

Because the Telegraph is read by officers, the Daily Mail by soldiers. If only life were so simple.
It’s about a disciplined existence. Conforming to a set of rules. Understanding that you have to follow those rules even when you don’t like them.
I take it you’re not in Defence? It’s a world different from the rest of the civil service. We even speak a different language.

But I need not justify myself, I am allowed my own beliefs and air them in the increasing vain hope that someone on these boards wants to have a dialogue. Instead I find myself shrieked down time and again.

You’ll know then that time spent in reconnaissance is seldom wasted. If you took time to know people on these threads you’d know that although the argument is robust there are few shriekers, and very few left wing posters. People disagreeing with you and each other is a sign of a healthy forum.

If they present an opinion. As Dickens has just demonstrated. Instead there’s often an insistence in their right being the only right, most usually coupled with smart remarks or sarcasm, or god forbid, an attempt to show me how superior they are.

I have a bed to go to, else I’d engage with the obviously more emotionally intelligent Dickens

ExperiencedNotOld

Because the Telegraph is read by officers, the Daily Mail by soldiers. If only life were so simple.
It’s about a disciplined existence. Conforming to a set of rules. Understanding that you have to follow those rules even when you don’t like them.
I take it you’re not in Defence? It’s a world different from the rest of the civil service. We even speak a different language.

But I need not justify myself, I am allowed my own beliefs and air them in the increasing vain hope that someone on these boards wants to have a dialogue. Instead I find myself shrieked down time and again.

You’ll know then that time spent in reconnaissance is seldom wasted. If you took time to know people on these threads you’d know that although the argument is robust there are few shriekers, and very few left wing posters. People disagreeing with you and each other is a sign of a healthy forum.

... just for clarification. I am not a left-winger.

And if my traditional-Conservative-voting friends and acquaintances (that includes both the Remain and Brexit camps) are anything to set any store by, their dislike of him is not borne from any left-wing ideology, rather that they feel he has betrayed the principles of Parliamentary democracy, and brought the Party into disrepute.

And as for "traitor-like support", I think Boris Johnson himself has some questions that still need to be answered about his association with Russian oligarchs. He personally, initially, prevented the publication of a parliamentary report on allegations of Russian interference in British politics. A report which our intelligence agencies had actively supported to be released ahead of the general election. Why? Of course, it was released in July 2020 - heavily redacted.

My personal dislike of the man is in no way connected to any 'leftie' ideology. I think he is a dangerous, loose cannon, totally consumed by his personal ambition. And far from his being a 'fool', I believe he's a very clever manipulator.

Whitewavemark2

Well you have certainly given me a lot of merriment this evening for which I thank you.

Perhaps you live in a small world with a very small outlook. Just consider that. I find it sad, not merry-making.

Well you have certainly given me a lot of merriment this evening for which I thank you.

Because the Telegraph is read by officers, the Daily Mail by soldiers. If only life were so simple.
It’s about a disciplined existence. Conforming to a set of rules. Understanding that you have to follow those rules even when you don’t like them.
I take it you’re not in Defence? It’s a world different from the rest of the civil service. We even speak a different language.

But I need not justify myself, I am allowed my own beliefs and air them in the increasing vain hope that someone on these boards wants to have a dialogue. Instead I find myself shrieked down time and again.

One thing for sure is that this NI agreement has been a total humiliation for Johnson, but he getting no more than he deserves.