How did we lose our freedom of speech? Is it irreversible?

Siope

PS: There is no significant variation of opinion. amongst scientists on climate change

Like Covid and the vaccines, there is a narrative that has been agreed upon internationally. You don't have to look further than the World Economic Forum for the source. Their initial experts include Bill Gates (good on computers and expert in making money but suddenly becomes an epidemiologist and then a climatologist) and a Scandinavian teenager with learning difficulties and pushy parents. The WEF members we know well and their totalitarian goals can be achieved by a variety of goals, the restrictions to resolve their "Climate Crisis" being the latest.

There is evidence that the world is warming up but it depends on how you spin it. Unfortunately the climatologists who offer a different view are kept out of mainstream.

I studied climatology as part of my geography degree at Birkbeck College, London. In charge was Prof Kenneth Hare, one of the first to identify global warming. He didn't see it as apocalyptic and pointed out that there were positives, like new areas becoming cultivable. We learned about palaeoclimate eg Cheshire was once a desert and only a few hundred thousand year ago LA was frozen. We are in an interglacial so therefore temperatures will rise. Then there is solar activity, changes in the earth's tilt, changes in the oceans and so on. We only have data from a short period and nowhere enough to do accurate modelling. (Unless you ask Neil Ferguson).

The real issues are pollution, especially plastics, conservation and recycling. Here it gets mucky as there is money involved and plenty of opportunity to make or lose fortunes so once again the corporations try run the show and silence any challenges, whilst at the same time trying to frighten the public into behaving the way they want them to. We just have to stay wary and research beyond the mainstream. I do honestly believe global warming is an issue but not a crisis and something we can learn to live with if we listen to the scientists and keep the politicians at arm's length.

This is a long read but you don’t have to read it all, just the first two paragraphs. This was written in 2015. It hasn’t got any better since then.

martinhallfacilitation.org/2015/01/08/thought-police-bad-idea/

well i'm not a scientist, at all, so i seek advice from those who are, principally dr bharat pankhania, who knows all about infectious diseases.
and lots of other things too; cooking, gardening etc

twitter.com/doctorshaib?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

Unfortunately the phrase "do your own research" no longer refers to stringent scientific investigation and analysis of peer reviewed papers, but it just means spending hours on the Internet going further and further down rabbit holes where the wldest conspiracy theories hold sway.

I'm not sure I fully understand where the OP is coming from, However, I don't believe we have lost our freedom of speech, but I do believe that we should be more sceptical (not cynical) of what we read in the media.

Siope

^Climate is changing.^

What we can or should do about it there is massive disagreement

Not at all my area of expertise, so happy to learn different, but my understanding is there is a consensus of opinion amongst scientists on the actions and policies needed - see, for example, the IPCC’s Mitigation of Climate Change report, published in April last year - but reluctance amongst governments to take the necessary actions as quickly as the scientists recommend.

But, as I say, if you have appropriately peer reviewed, creditable resources that prove significant disagreement amongst scientists, happy to be proved wrong.

As I have said on other topics I don’t do “other sources,” what I see is nobody is doing anything other than paying lip service to reducing the effects of climate change.

To be serious we need to do much much more.

As a family who were critical of much of the tosh spouted by the government during COVID, I never felt remotely inhibited in dicussing those points I disagreed on. On the otherhand i also looked at John Campbells pontifications and didn't think much of them either.

The biggest problem was that many of those who disagreed with government policy had not properly researched their subject, did not provide links to the research they were quoting and tended to be believers in conspiracy theories and were non-vaxers.

There were some who supported their disagreement with properly researched and published articles that could be cross checked, but they were few and far between.

Last post. every ever. Sorry.

Climate is changing.

What we can or should do about it there is massive disagreement

Not at all my area of expertise, so happy to learn different, but my understanding is there is a consensus of opinion amongst scientists on the actions and policies needed - see, for example, the IPCC’s Mitigation of Climate Change report, published in April last year - but reluctance amongst governments to take the necessary actions as quickly as the scientists recommend.

But, as I say, if you have appropriately peer reviewed, creditable resources that prove significant disagreement amongst scientists, happy to be proved wrong.

Interesting first ever post on GN, Veridica. It seems to be intended to undermine all that governments every decide to do. Do you not like democracy?

Siope

PS: There is no significant variation of opinion. amongst scientists on climate change

Climate is changing.

What we can or should do about it there is massive disagreement

If freedom of speech is indeed curtailed how is Veridica able to say what she has on here? Having said that I do see a problem with how things are presented to us, particularly our young people who seem to be taught what to think and not how to think.

I absolutely believe we’re still free to maintain our own beliefs and make our own narrative. However, we should be careful to avoid insult to anyone. There’s a difference between saying ‘I hate x people’ to ‘I don’t understand the issues held by x people’. The first attempts to kill any dialogue, the second invites it.
Of course, minority beliefs will always been seen as a bit bonkers - be prepared for that.
I would say this site is populated by many than want to insist only their input is right and refuse to properly discuss anything contrary to that. Perhaps they’re bonkers as well. Or maybe blinkered!

Not often we are on the same page gagajo, maizieD, but just this once 👏👏👏👏

Blossoming

Is this an anti vaccine thread?

Thinly veiled.

MaizieD

I'm wondering why you are all encouraging the OP's nonsense.

Exactly.

Quoting non experts, a mismash of conspiracy theories and a confusion of terminology. Linking mask wearing and Brexit.

Talk about scoring an own goal.

Is this an anti vaccine thread?

Veridica I think you raise some very interesting points as from the very beginning of the pandemic, my husband analysed the situation differently to the experts. It is not the case that we are not allowed contrary opinions as no government can or should exert mind control over the population. It’s more simple … holding contrarian views can be a very lonely business. No one listens, apart from a tiny inner circle. Where do you go with your views? Probably to the pharmacy for blood pressure tablets!

Also pharmaceutical companies had a vested financial interest in vaccination but we’re dealing with unknowns - ultimately we can’t know whether more lives were saved or lost by the vaccination programs. We do know that mistakes were made by making Ivermectin unavailable.

I don’t think Brexit should be included in the same debate about the pandemic. Much more political work needs to be done on how the UK goes forward from here.

I'm wondering why you are all encouraging the OP's nonsense.

Are you American OP?
Your language and spelling suggest you might be. If so that might explain your point of view - which I do not share.

I can’t remember when we had freedom of speech. Certainly not in my long lifetime. What is changing is that, unless we follow the party line as determined by politicians and public figures, we are liable to be sued and/or arrested these days.

Veridica
Your not the only one who looked at the numbers. Thousands of people were looking and coming to the same conclusion.
If Professor Ferguson believed his prediction of 500,000 deaths, why did he invite his married lover to travel across London for some afternoon rumpy pumpy.

Veridica
I agree with you 100% on the covid issue, but not on Dr John.
The only Dr John I listen to is a singer/musician.

MawtheMerrier

So easy to be wise after the event.
I don’t accept your basic premise and as has been said, “censuring “ and “censoring” are not the same thing..
You make no argument to back up your claim that we have lost freedom of speech so I see no case to answer.

Thanks for taking the time to comment. The problem is that there were many who were wise during the event but they were stopped from sharing their evidence, with catastrophic results. That's what I mean about loss of freedom of speech. Please check out the comment I made to one of the replies above.

When Covid started I began doing my own calculations on government data and with the exception of April 2020 when it was at its height, it didn't seem much worse than 2018 which was the last "bad 'flu year". It certainly wasn't the return of the Black Death as the media suggested. That made me very suspicious.

Outside of the Covid and mRNA issues you may want to look at the coverage of Ukraine. Look up Victoria Nuland and the efforts made by the US for regime change by putting Zelensky in post. More recently the Pulitzer Prize winning investigative journalist Seymour Hersh has done an incredible exposé on the destruction of the Nordstream pipeline by the US, assisted by Norway. He is one person who is too big to be ignored and he is being taken seriously, as he was over the My Lai massacre in Vietnam which he exposed so many years ago. Check out the YouTube Redacted channel for an interview with "Sy" Hersh and see what you think.

When I was at work, I had to enable students to perform their own research and get to the truth. I had to practice what I preached rather than just rely on feelings, although gut reaction is often a good incentive to get started. I also had to encourage debate and get criticised so I'd welcome any "free speech" in search of the truth.

Please do me a favour by meeting me half way and looking up: YouTube Dr John Campbell

Campbell, who by the way is a nurse not a medical doctor, has been discussed on here for the past three years - he's not new to us.

Call me old fashioned but I prefer lessons on pandemics from the world's epidemiologists not 'Dr John'.