How did we lose our freedom of speech? Is it irreversible?

And the repudiation of experts in the run up to the Brexit referendum was appalling. If only they had been listened to we wouldn't be in half the mess we are now in thanks to 13 years of Tory misgovernment.

Frankly, you’re talking rot. Censuring someone is not the same as removing their freedom of speech. I rather suspect you meant censoring, which didn’t happen. Using your example: the experts on Covid were on television virtually daily.

PS: There is no significant variation of opinion. amongst scientists on climate change

So easy to be wise after the event.
I don’t accept your basic premise and as has been said, “censuring “ and “censoring” are not the same thing..
You make no argument to back up your claim that we have lost freedom of speech so I see no case to answer.

Siope

Frankly, you’re talking rot. Censuring someone is not the same as removing their freedom of speech. I rather suspect you meant censoring, which didn’t happen. Using your example: the experts on Covid were on television virtually daily.

That's OK to point out the difference. I don't mind that. I actually meant both because so many people, during Covid for example, were censured for disagreeing with the narrative such as the equally qualified scientists and doctors who offered alternative solutions to help people recover. The Great Barrington Declaration was treated with contempt by those who had the power, from Fauci downwards.

The experts who were chosen to front the government campaigns by appearing on TV are part of the problem I was referring to. They provided misinformation, starting with Neil Ferguson's horrendously miscalculated projections and kept going, even when we all knew they were flawed. The government itself didn't believe it, as evidenced by the parties.

I absolutely understand where you are coming from as I have had similar discussions with old friends but if you do your own research you will find things that contradict what the politicians who control the media tell you. Then, like me, you will make up your own mind. Please do me a favour by meeting me half way and looking up: YouTube Dr John Campbell who has done some excellent short videos, one of which is an interview with Prof Norman Fenton, also of London Uni. who has done much more work on the Covid data than Neil Ferguson. When Covid appeared, Dr John put out many videos to advise people on how to stay safe, then when the mRNA appeared to be failing and making people seriously ill or worse, he worked through the data and turned 180 degrees.

You don't have to believe everything that Dr John says (or mainstream media either!) but if you start to worry about the version being told by politicians and the experts they appoint, then you will understand the concerns that many of us are expressing.

Please do me a favour by meeting me half way and looking up: YouTube Dr John Campbell

Campbell, who by the way is a nurse not a medical doctor, has been discussed on here for the past three years - he's not new to us.

Call me old fashioned but I prefer lessons on pandemics from the world's epidemiologists not 'Dr John'.

MawtheMerrier

So easy to be wise after the event.
I don’t accept your basic premise and as has been said, “censuring “ and “censoring” are not the same thing..
You make no argument to back up your claim that we have lost freedom of speech so I see no case to answer.

Thanks for taking the time to comment. The problem is that there were many who were wise during the event but they were stopped from sharing their evidence, with catastrophic results. That's what I mean about loss of freedom of speech. Please check out the comment I made to one of the replies above.

When Covid started I began doing my own calculations on government data and with the exception of April 2020 when it was at its height, it didn't seem much worse than 2018 which was the last "bad 'flu year". It certainly wasn't the return of the Black Death as the media suggested. That made me very suspicious.

Outside of the Covid and mRNA issues you may want to look at the coverage of Ukraine. Look up Victoria Nuland and the efforts made by the US for regime change by putting Zelensky in post. More recently the Pulitzer Prize winning investigative journalist Seymour Hersh has done an incredible exposé on the destruction of the Nordstream pipeline by the US, assisted by Norway. He is one person who is too big to be ignored and he is being taken seriously, as he was over the My Lai massacre in Vietnam which he exposed so many years ago. Check out the YouTube Redacted channel for an interview with "Sy" Hersh and see what you think.

When I was at work, I had to enable students to perform their own research and get to the truth. I had to practice what I preached rather than just rely on feelings, although gut reaction is often a good incentive to get started. I also had to encourage debate and get criticised so I'd welcome any "free speech" in search of the truth.

Veridica
I agree with you 100% on the covid issue, but not on Dr John.
The only Dr John I listen to is a singer/musician.

Veridica
Your not the only one who looked at the numbers. Thousands of people were looking and coming to the same conclusion.
If Professor Ferguson believed his prediction of 500,000 deaths, why did he invite his married lover to travel across London for some afternoon rumpy pumpy.

I can’t remember when we had freedom of speech. Certainly not in my long lifetime. What is changing is that, unless we follow the party line as determined by politicians and public figures, we are liable to be sued and/or arrested these days.

Are you American OP?
Your language and spelling suggest you might be. If so that might explain your point of view - which I do not share.

I'm wondering why you are all encouraging the OP's nonsense.

Veridica I think you raise some very interesting points as from the very beginning of the pandemic, my husband analysed the situation differently to the experts. It is not the case that we are not allowed contrary opinions as no government can or should exert mind control over the population. It’s more simple … holding contrarian views can be a very lonely business. No one listens, apart from a tiny inner circle. Where do you go with your views? Probably to the pharmacy for blood pressure tablets!

Also pharmaceutical companies had a vested financial interest in vaccination but we’re dealing with unknowns - ultimately we can’t know whether more lives were saved or lost by the vaccination programs. We do know that mistakes were made by making Ivermectin unavailable.

I don’t think Brexit should be included in the same debate about the pandemic. Much more political work needs to be done on how the UK goes forward from here.

Is this an anti vaccine thread?

MaizieD

I'm wondering why you are all encouraging the OP's nonsense.

Exactly.

Quoting non experts, a mismash of conspiracy theories and a confusion of terminology. Linking mask wearing and Brexit.

Talk about scoring an own goal.

Blossoming

Is this an anti vaccine thread?

Thinly veiled.

Not often we are on the same page gagajo, maizieD, but just this once 👏👏👏👏

I absolutely believe we’re still free to maintain our own beliefs and make our own narrative. However, we should be careful to avoid insult to anyone. There’s a difference between saying ‘I hate x people’ to ‘I don’t understand the issues held by x people’. The first attempts to kill any dialogue, the second invites it.
Of course, minority beliefs will always been seen as a bit bonkers - be prepared for that.
I would say this site is populated by many than want to insist only their input is right and refuse to properly discuss anything contrary to that. Perhaps they’re bonkers as well. Or maybe blinkered!

If freedom of speech is indeed curtailed how is Veridica able to say what she has on here? Having said that I do see a problem with how things are presented to us, particularly our young people who seem to be taught what to think and not how to think.

Siope

PS: There is no significant variation of opinion. amongst scientists on climate change

Climate is changing.

What we can or should do about it there is massive disagreement

Interesting first ever post on GN, Veridica. It seems to be intended to undermine all that governments every decide to do. Do you not like democracy?

Climate is changing.

What we can or should do about it there is massive disagreement

Not at all my area of expertise, so happy to learn different, but my understanding is there is a consensus of opinion amongst scientists on the actions and policies needed - see, for example, the IPCC’s Mitigation of Climate Change report, published in April last year - but reluctance amongst governments to take the necessary actions as quickly as the scientists recommend.

But, as I say, if you have appropriately peer reviewed, creditable resources that prove significant disagreement amongst scientists, happy to be proved wrong.

Last post. every ever. Sorry.

As a family who were critical of much of the tosh spouted by the government during COVID, I never felt remotely inhibited in dicussing those points I disagreed on. On the otherhand i also looked at John Campbells pontifications and didn't think much of them either.

The biggest problem was that many of those who disagreed with government policy had not properly researched their subject, did not provide links to the research they were quoting and tended to be believers in conspiracy theories and were non-vaxers.

There were some who supported their disagreement with properly researched and published articles that could be cross checked, but they were few and far between.