Drag Act and Bondage Act for a babies and toddlers to enjoy?

I did, indirectly . The one where you quoted Deacon.

Oh, disappointed ☹

I thought you meant one of my posts 😀

Callistemon21

I should learn to just type one post when replying 😂

And I should learn to quote more often 😂

I meant the Deacon article. Nail On Head.

I should learn to just type one post when replying 😂

Perfect

It’s hard to know what children/ babies remember

It's not necessarily what they remember, Bluebelle, it is what is imprinted on their brains at a time when the rapid formation of pathways in the brain is happening.

Sorry - her alter ego 😲

I find some drag acts funny, eg IMO the late lamented Lily Savage was very funny (on TV at least - I don't know about a live show)
And now we have his alter ego, Paul O'Grady, saviour of dogs and a National Treasure.
I love his programmes.

eazybee

Michael Deacon's wry comments in the Way of the World column (DT) are worth reading. They are addressed to the supposed type of parent who would take their children to this 'baby sensory' show.

It's the sort of parent who is so insufferably progressive that watching a show like this makes them feel even smugger than normal. Just imagine the lovely warm glow of self-congratulation that must spread over them (as they watch.)

Gosh, I'm just SO open -minded! So incredibly tolerant and inclusive! I'm taking my nine-month old baby to watch a load of semi-naked men prance about....and I don't feel uncomfortable at all

Imagine being the sort of hateful, bigoted old Tory prude who would object to all this innocent joy! I do hope my children grow up to be as kind, caring and compassionate as me!

To me, this is the only sort of explanation as to how anyone could defend this type of 'entertainment' for young mothers.

Oh, spot on (whoever he is!)

Harris27

This so annoys me. In my line of work safeguarding is rammed down our throats daily so how do things like this come to light? I’m a teacher and it just sickens me. The way some kids act and talk they’re like teenagers at Three. They must be seeing something.

This happened to me when I taught infants. The police asked us to do a questionnaire as a lot of drugs were coming into the port where I worked.
We said a name like 'sheep' and the children had to draw what they thought. One little boy at the end came and told me he didn't know what the coke looked like so he had drawn a bottle of coke but he knew his mum and dad liked it.
It sickens me as well. One of my own DD asked me what a strap-on was when she was about 10. I didn't know and didn't explain when I found out either.

BlueBelle
As a mum wouldn’t you want your baby /little one to be around calm/pleasant/sensitive situations not loud music alcohol and skimpy dressed sexual acting strangers …. men and women?

Not some mums and evidently not some GNs.
I’ll keep eazybee’s post in mind.

It’s hard to know what children/ babies remember
I only have bits of memories of things in my childhood but one I do remember and I think I was just starting to try to climb the stairs (no stair gates in them there days) so I was probably about 12/ 15 months old, I slipped and cut my chin which bleed profusely I can remember my Dad (well I presume it was my dad) running with me in his arms down the back alley to the hospital…l so we do sometimes have very young memories

As a mum wouldn’t you want your baby /little one to be around calm/pleasant/sensitive situations not loud music alcohol and skimpy dressed sexual acting strangers …. men and women
I m glad it’s been taken off and I hope it doesn’t resurrect itself

It speaks volumes about the mothers who expose their children to such tripe. Hopefully the babies are too young to remember it.
I remember once teaching a nursery age child who was obviously disturbed by exposure to horror films which were beyond his understanding. Some people are not fit to be parents.

I think it comes down to basically there are a group of men who have absolutely no respect for women in any way shape or form.

Dragging up gives them the chance to mock and parody women.

Children of any age should not be subjected to this form of entertainment.

I don't know much about it Doodledog but I've googled and drag queen story hour is an international thing. This seems a balanced article which actually touches on what you have posted

www.theguardian.com/culture/2022/aug/11/im-just-trying-to-make-the-world-a-little-brighter-how-the-culture-wars-hijacked-drag-queen-story-hour

V3ra

^If I had young children I wouldn’t take them to such an event. But I don’t, and neither do I have grandchildren yet^.

ExperiencedNotOld I'm sorry but in this discussion you are defending the indefensible.

Sorry, I really don’t follow your comment. Honesty.

This so annoys me. In my line of work safeguarding is rammed down our throats daily so how do things like this come to light? I’m a teacher and it just sickens me. The way some kids act and talk they’re like teenagers at Three. They must be seeing something.

Sorry - that should have been addressed to Janejudge.

JaneJudge

They had someone in drag reading to children at our local library, so I'd sort of just assumed not all drag was sexualised, a bit like pantomime dames. I will fully admit it is not my bag so I haven't taken a massive interest in even watching it

Why was the reader in drag, Smileless? I'm not saying it was sexualised - but what was the need to impersonate a woman? Why not get a real one, if sex is important? It's hard to imagine getting someone to black up to read to children, or to cosplay a wheelchair user being ok isn't it? Why is it ok to impersonate women like that?

If an author is a transwoman it's different, but drag is not, we are told, the same thing at all, so it does beg the question, rather.

Michael Deacon hit the nail on the head with that eazybee. I wonder how it would have been received if the audience was made up of GM's with their baby/toddler GC.

They had someone in drag reading to children at our local library, so I'd sort of just assumed not all drag was sexualised, a bit like pantomime dames. I will fully admit it is not my bag so I haven't taken a massive interest in even watching it

JaneJudge

wtf those comments from him aren't even justified, it has nothing to do with transgender people. Drag doesn't have to be sexualised either

I think that's debatable. I find some drag acts funny, eg IMO the late lamented Lily Savage was very funny (on TV at least - I don't know about a live show), because it wasn't about poking fun at women in general, but about a particular character in particular. As I understand it, the roots of drag are sexualised, as they allowed men in gay clubs to indulge their autogynephile fantasies in an exhibitionist way. This then became watered down for mainstream entertainment purposes, which is where Danny la Rue et al came in. Music Hall was another genre where they could flourish and people could (harmlessly) understand the jokes on different levels.

More broadly though, drag is not dissimilar to 'blacking up' in the manner of the Black and White Minstrels, and in the current misogynist climate I am uneasy about it.

None of that is particularly relevant to the thread, though (although given the guest on JV on Friday I would lay a pound to a penny that the show under discussion was at the less feminist end of the 'drag' spectrum), so I will shut up now.

But before I do, I've found a link to the clip of the guest on JV (Crystal from UK Road Race) so you can see the defence and make up your own minds. It doesn't seem to me to discuss the act at all, but to deflect the conversation into whataboutery and the usual 'if you disagree with this you must think that' sort of territory. Here it is though - it's about 5 minutes long:

www.facebook.com/JeremyVineOn5/?locale=en_GB

Michael Deacon's wry comments in the Way of the World column (DT) are worth reading. They are addressed to the supposed type of parent who would take their children to this 'baby sensory' show.

It's the sort of parent who is so insufferably progressive that watching a show like this makes them feel even smugger than normal. Just imagine the lovely warm glow of self-congratulation that must spread over them (as they watch.)

Gosh, I'm just SO open -minded! So incredibly tolerant and inclusive! I'm taking my nine-month old baby to watch a load of semi-naked men prance about....and I don't feel uncomfortable at all

Imagine being the sort of hateful, bigoted old Tory prude who would object to all this innocent joy! I do hope my children grow up to be as kind, caring and compassionate as me!

To me, this is the only sort of explanation as to how anyone could defend this type of 'entertainment' for young mothers.

But this is a cultural shift and it affects everyone. Because there's a whole industry of services dedicated to the welfare of minors which would indicate that 'parental responsibility' is very definitely not an exact science.

Yes, it is a cultural shift and in some ways we need to change and adapt, become more tolerant as a society.

However, this is normalising what would have been termed fetishes and is it right that infants should be exposed to this? Adults have a choice, they can watch in clubs for adults and do the same at home if they wish but these children had no choice in the matter.

Drag doesn't have to be sexualised either
Many of us grew up watching Danny la Rue (my Mum loved him!) and Dame Edna was always wickedly humourous but not in an overtly sexual way at all.

I think that labelling people as 'judgemental' because they voice an opinion on an issue such as this is a variation on the 'no debate' statement. It is the same ploy - it stifles debate (as I believe it's intended to do). No one really wants to appear judgemental or phobic. I think it is deliberate. And it's unhealthy.
this absolutely Dickens!