New immigration bill - how on earth will it work?

Try Google 😉

Which newspaper was that, Rosina?. Can you post a link to the story?

Likewise, Allsorts. Any chance of a link to the interview? Or detail of the channel and the day it was broadcast so that it could be googled?

Then people can see for themselves.

A large amount if the traffickers are living in this country having come from abroad, one was interviewed the other day. So many are economic migrants and not fleeing torture, we need a proper system as we must not let people come here on these boats. People caught trafficking should be sent back to their country of origin and all their ill gotten gains taken off them. Every time anything is done to curb the influx the left protest. If I was escaping torture and starvation I wouldn’t come through so many safe countries and risk my families lives on these boats, doesn’t make sense. They get more here than the countries they come through.

Having read most of the posts I turned to the newspaper; a man deported from this country for raping a twelve year old, and who has served a prison sentence, is waiting to board a boat to return. Evidently he has 'changed his ways' and 'It was all a misunderstanding'. If, as some suggest, we fast track, how can we stop someone like this? He may be one in ten, twenty thousand I don't doubt, but he is there, waiting to come back, and not by any legal route. Do we want him?

Simple answer - it won't.

In one of his blog posts today Richard Murphy quotes in full the statement from the UNHCR (The UN refugee agency) on on the UK Asylum Bill

His summary of it:

In summary, they are saying:

The UK is denying the right to asylum here.
Claiming illegality of entry as a bar to entry when claiming asylum is oxymoronic because refugees almost inevitably lack legal status.
No one has to apply for asylum in the first country they reach.
The UK government rhetoric on this whole issue is inappropriate.
That is most especially the case as we have no appropriate arrangements in place for transferring genuine asylum seekers to another country.
We will, therefore, leave genuine asylum seekers in limbo if we seek to expel them, abusing their rights as a result.
We are failing in our international duty.

The whole statement is worth reading; it puts to bed a number of myths.

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2023/03/08/yesterday-we-saw-fascist-legislation-proposed-in-the-uk-parliament/

No one seems to have a workable solution, but one will need to be found.

I don't think that is true, grandtanteJE65. I've seen 'workable solutions' time and time again, but they are not ones which our government wish to pursue. This is a purely political move prompted by their low poll ratings. They think that there are enough xenophobes and racists in the UK to swing it for them at the next GE.

I sincerely trust that they are wrong.

Some of the logic defeats me. Why should the threat of deportation stop the boats? The people who are conned into paying vast sums to traffickers are not going to be aware of these changes or how they will be affected. If anything they will be forced to pay even more money because the traffickers will be working even harder on their behalf!!! Meanwhile people are going to be reduced to commodities to be shipped off round the world. Does that make us much better than the traffickers?

fancythat

MaizieD

silverlining48

Generally most people here have no personal or family experience of having to leave your home, your country, packing only what little you can physically carry. To risk your life to get to what you hope is a safe place. Possibly never to see family or friends again. Try to imagine what that feels like.
This has affected my direct family and leaving everything you know is the hardest decision not one lightly taken, it’s not a whim, which is why I feel so much sympathy for the plight of refugees from war, starvation or harsh political governance.
Although I have no time for our current government and worry where it is headed we still have what so many others don’t.
As for economic migrants I can understand that too. Wouldn’t we if brave enough, do the same thing?

I have just watched PMQs. It makes me sick to the stomach to hear Sunak saying that this proposed legislation is a 'compassionate' solution.

It also makes me sick to hear him insisting that it's 'what The People' want.

There are always the people who are not speaking up or speaking out to count as well.And I suspect there are a large number of those.
I think even Politicians disregard them. At their peril sometimes.

But I agree, saying "The People" and lumping them all together, is hardly correct.

Many moons ago, I studied Nazi language in some detail as part of my degree.

"People" is English for "Volk", which acquired a special meaning in Nazi propaganda. The "Volk" were all of us. The Nazi party saw itself as the guardian of the "Volk", so anybody dissenting from the Nazi was branded a traitor. Isn't that what Braverman said we are, if we disagree with her legislation?

The obvious answer is that it won't work.

It is doubtful that sending illegal immigrants anywhere except back to their own countries, if they will not be at risk of imprisonment or death there, is even legal.

Unfortunately, there are at least two sides to this problem.
Enormous numbers of people are fleeing from famine, war, climate change in the Middle East and Africa and trying desperately to find somewhere to live in safety.

Why so many want to get to Britain, turning down offers of homes and work in countries such as France and Germany is beyond me, but that is their decision and in part due to the fact that the policy of them having to seek the right to stay in the first country in Europe that they reached, placed far to great a strain on Greece and Italy, and to a certain extent Spain too.

No one seems to have a workable solution, but one will need to be found.

MaizieD

silverlining48

Generally most people here have no personal or family experience of having to leave your home, your country, packing only what little you can physically carry. To risk your life to get to what you hope is a safe place. Possibly never to see family or friends again. Try to imagine what that feels like.
This has affected my direct family and leaving everything you know is the hardest decision not one lightly taken, it’s not a whim, which is why I feel so much sympathy for the plight of refugees from war, starvation or harsh political governance.
Although I have no time for our current government and worry where it is headed we still have what so many others don’t.
As for economic migrants I can understand that too. Wouldn’t we if brave enough, do the same thing?

I have just watched PMQs. It makes me sick to the stomach to hear Sunak saying that this proposed legislation is a 'compassionate' solution.

It also makes me sick to hear him insisting that it's 'what The People' want.

There are always the people who are not speaking up or speaking out to count as well.And I suspect there are a large number of those.
I think even Politicians disregard them. At their peril sometimes.

But I agree, saying "The People" and lumping them all together, is hardly correct.

Whitewavemark2

Yes - it’s all about the next election - fool the voter and win the election. “Othering” helped win them Brexit so they reckon this will win them the election.

If it is just that[not saying it isnt necessarily], I am suprised it has been started this early.
A General election[yes I know there are local elections] doesnt have to be called or had, cant remember which, until January 2025.

silverlining48

Generally most people here have no personal or family experience of having to leave your home, your country, packing only what little you can physically carry. To risk your life to get to what you hope is a safe place. Possibly never to see family or friends again. Try to imagine what that feels like.
This has affected my direct family and leaving everything you know is the hardest decision not one lightly taken, it’s not a whim, which is why I feel so much sympathy for the plight of refugees from war, starvation or harsh political governance.
Although I have no time for our current government and worry where it is headed we still have what so many others don’t.
As for economic migrants I can understand that too. Wouldn’t we if brave enough, do the same thing?

I have just watched PMQs. It makes me sick to the stomach to hear Sunak saying that this proposed legislation is a 'compassionate' solution.

It also makes me sick to hear him insisting that it's 'what The People' want.

Braverman and Sunak (today) breaking the ministerial code - talking about leftie civil servants and lawyers.

Very poor.

Mollygo

If immigration or asylum seeking was easier, do you think it would stop the traffickers?
If not, how do you suggest the trafficking is stopped?

Safe routes?

Take up the French offer of a processing centre in France?

The traffickers only get their custom because there is no other way for asylum seekers to get to the UK.

Yes - it’s all about the next election - fool the voter and win the election. “Othering” helped win them Brexit so they reckon this will win them the election.

Interesting tweet from Dan Hodges, right wing journalist:

(((Dan Hodges)))
@DPJHodges
On small-boats. I've yet to find a Tory MP who thinks it will actually work. Or who believes even Braverman thinks it will work. One senior Tory said "she knows it won't work. Her plan is to eventually resign, and claim No.10/officials undermined her strategy".

Read that in conjunction with LHD's earlier 'explanation of how it works.

This legislation, if it even gets thorough parliament', will fail.

SNP - QT - good questions.

Glorianny

Rosina

Glorianny wouldn't that be good - but sadly it is not what is happening - not here, and not in other countries it seems. We don't have enough staff to deal with the administration - but we are where we are and urgent action is needed. You would have to be made of stone not to feel compassion for people who have, as silverlining has said, done the unthinkable for most of us and left everything and everyone, but the practicalities, the reality, is that we are not coping and the whole situation is going to implode before long. Checks must be made - like it or not there will be an element of people attempting to enter this country who are dangerous and will cause problems. Do we ignore checks and take the risk? That will be fine until we have another Manchester bomb or terrorists happy to die to blow up a tube train. This is not silly hysteria - without some kind of control advantage will be taken.

The Manchester bomber was not an asylum seeker he was born in the UK.
To my knowledge there haven't been any terrorists attacks by any asylum seekers.
Of course it would be possible to fast track applications
It would also be possible to allow asylum seekers to work and pay taxes.
But that doesn't feed into the government's agenda for creating fear in the population does it?
Tony Ben on refugees
*The way a government treats refugees is very instructive because it shows you how they would treat the rest of us if they thought they could get away with it.*

Well said Glorianny.

Rosina

Glorianny wouldn't that be good - but sadly it is not what is happening - not here, and not in other countries it seems. We don't have enough staff to deal with the administration - but we are where we are and urgent action is needed. You would have to be made of stone not to feel compassion for people who have, as silverlining has said, done the unthinkable for most of us and left everything and everyone, but the practicalities, the reality, is that we are not coping and the whole situation is going to implode before long. Checks must be made - like it or not there will be an element of people attempting to enter this country who are dangerous and will cause problems. Do we ignore checks and take the risk? That will be fine until we have another Manchester bomb or terrorists happy to die to blow up a tube train. This is not silly hysteria - without some kind of control advantage will be taken.

The Manchester bomber was not an asylum seeker he was born in the UK.
To my knowledge there haven't been any terrorists attacks by any asylum seekers.
Of course it would be possible to fast track applications
It would also be possible to allow asylum seekers to work and pay taxes.
But that doesn't feed into the government's agenda for creating fear in the population does it?
Tony Ben on refugees
The way a government treats refugees is very instructive because it shows you how they would treat the rest of us if they thought they could get away with it.

If immigration or asylum seeking was easier, do you think it would stop the traffickers?
If not, how do you suggest the trafficking is stopped?

👀

Glorianny wouldn't that be good - but sadly it is not what is happening - not here, and not in other countries it seems. We don't have enough staff to deal with the administration - but we are where we are and urgent action is needed. You would have to be made of stone not to feel compassion for people who have, as silverlining has said, done the unthinkable for most of us and left everything and everyone, but the practicalities, the reality, is that we are not coping and the whole situation is going to implode before long. Checks must be made - like it or not there will be an element of people attempting to enter this country who are dangerous and will cause problems. Do we ignore checks and take the risk? That will be fine until we have another Manchester bomb or terrorists happy to die to blow up a tube train. This is not silly hysteria - without some kind of control advantage will be taken.

LadyHonoriaDedlock

How it works is:

1. The government enacts legislation that appeals to what I call the Alf Garnett vote that delivered for them in 2019 in order to keep them and their votes on board.

2. The first time the government attempts to act under the legislation, a string of court cases and appeals ensues right up to the Supreme Court which rules, as the government knew all along it would, that the legislation contravenes the European Convention on Human Rights.

3. The government is then able to whistle to the Alf Garnetts that they are being prevented from enacting the Will of the People by the ECHR, Labour Party, BBC, Unelected Judges, Lefty Lawyers, Muslims and, of course, immigrants.

Some of this being covered on the new thread Whitewave has started.

If the government decide to leave the ECHR, which does not need a referendum, they could decide to write a similar bunch of laws, leaving out bits of ECHR they dont like, and leaving in bits they do? Could they not?

Generally most people here have no personal or family experience of having to leave your home, your country, packing only what little you can physically carry. To risk your life to get to what you hope is a safe place. Possibly never to see family or friends again. Try to imagine what that feels like.
This has affected my direct family and leaving everything you know is the hardest decision not one lightly taken, it’s not a whim, which is why I feel so much sympathy for the plight of refugees from war, starvation or harsh political governance.
Although I have no time for our current government and worry where it is headed we still have what so many others don’t.
As for economic migrants I can understand that too. Wouldn’t we if brave enough, do the same thing?