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New immigration bill - how on earth will it work?

(539 Posts)
Whitewavemark2 Tue 07-Mar-23 07:49:34

So the latest wheeze from Sunak is to export every single asylum seeker who arrives on our shores, who have not gone through the proper channels or “safe route”

So,

Can anyone explain what safe routes are available.

Can anyone explain the countries willing to accept these exports?

Rwanda has agreed some sort of mutual export agreement - so they will take a few hundred in exchange for us taking theirs. So I’m unclear how that will reduce the pressure - if it ever gets off the ground.

Can anyone explain where all these people are going to be held whilst waiting export, as the law is to apply retrospectively.

Can anyone explain how the Tory government is NOT breaking international law?

varian Thu 16-Mar-23 18:31:57

"This seems a good moment to remember Britain’s well-established tradition of repelling refugees from its shores.

As the persecution of Jews and dissidents in Nazi-controlled Germany and Austria intensified in the summer of 1938, and as the liberal democracies which surrounded its territories imposed more and tougher visa restrictions and hardened their borders against refugees, those seeking refuge started to look for other means to enter safe countries. Those who had reached France, but feared that the country might soon be in line for invasion, or who already had relatives in Britain, started to enter the country illegally.

By definition, we have no means of knowing how many people did so successfully. If there are traces of these movements, they will lie in family memory, diaries and personal accounts and not public record. What we do have are accounts from newspapers, which over the summer and autumn of 1938 frequently carried stories of desperate attempts by refugees without the correct documentation to enter or remain in Britain. Reporters covered deportations of refugees landing at Croydon airport or Harwich port only to be turned back by immigration officers. They also wrote of refugees paying to cross the Channel in motor boats, landing at night or swimming ashore to circumvent immigration restrictions. They penned lurid reports of prosecutions for bigamous marriages, where German Jewish women were alleged to have offered money and other inducements to British men in exchange for marriage and the prospect of British nationality it offered.

Alongside these stories, the newspapers devoted growing numbers of column inches to prosecutions of aliens who had successfully entered the country without the consent of an immigration official but had subsequently been caught. The aim here was to emphasise that the British state remained in control of the situation, even where its borders had been breached. Considering the case of an illegal Polish immigrant, the presiding magistrate at Old Street Police, Herbert Metcalfe, declared that immigration law, which at that time made distinction between refugees and other immigrants, ‘should be sternly enforced, and it ought to go forth as a general warning that people who disobeyed the aliens’ law and disregarded the whole thing generally would have “a rough time”’. Two months later, Metcalfe sentenced three aliens who had entered Britain without the permission of an immigration officer, stating: ‘it was becoming an outrage the way in which stateless Jews were pouring in from every port of this country. As far as he was concerned, he intended to enforce the law to the fullest extent’. Although the occasional newspaper report suggested that some magistrates dealt with illegal immigration with a degree of leniency in the months following Germany’s annexation of Austria, overall the tone of reported judgements suggests that deportation was the default option for anyone seen to be contravening immigration law.

The penalties could be significant. Those landing illegally faced deportation. In July 1938 two foreign seamen were sentenced to three months in prison with hard labour for helping a German Jewish refugee to land illegally in Britain. "

refugeehistory.org/blog/2020/8/12/repelling-refugees-2020-1938

MayBee70 Thu 16-Mar-23 17:45:44

Is that why Peter Bone didn’t vote as well. I was surprised that he didn’t support it.

Casdon Thu 16-Mar-23 15:18:44

Siope

Grany

KS didn’t vote

Because he’s paired with Sunak, who was out of the country.

Touché

Siope Thu 16-Mar-23 15:13:04

Grany

KS didn’t vote

Because he’s paired with Sunak, who was out of the country.

Grany Thu 16-Mar-23 14:19:27

KS didn’t vote

MayBee70 Wed 15-Mar-23 21:21:27

Oh dear. And there was me thinking he was a decent Conservative too. Now going to check Tobias Ellwood….

MayBee70 Wed 15-Mar-23 21:18:30

It’s quite something for Tory MP’s not to follow the party line. Just going to check how they voted. I’d be disappointed if Tom Tugendhat, who made such an impassioned speech in parliament about the plight of the Afghan people, voted for it.

varian Wed 15-Mar-23 18:00:30

44 Tory MPs is quite a significant number in relation to thew government's majority which is now, thanks to by-elections, well below the 80 MP level they got in 2019

Grantanow Wed 15-Mar-23 11:22:04

As I said above it is not intended to 'work'. It's a bone tossed to anti-immigrant voters but also it caused Labour to vote against the Bill (along with some Tories with a conscience - they may be deselected of course) thereby enabling the Tories to say immigration is safe with them and not Labour.

varian Tue 14-Mar-23 20:23:21

Surely the UK government is compassionate and will always protect human rights?

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2023/mar/14/martin-rowson-on-choppy-waters-with-braverman-and-hunt-cartoon

growstuff Tue 14-Mar-23 19:39:53

I was glad to see that the Tory MP who was a pupil at a school where I taught was one of the ones who didn't vote for it. I know something of her background and I would have been horrified if she's voted for it.

varian Tue 14-Mar-23 19:29:22

Well done these 44 Tories!

There is a point beyond which no decent politician should ever go.

Chocolatelovinggran Tue 14-Mar-23 11:23:15

Without wishing to enter the fray re illegal/ legal or people smuggling v legal entrance, I want to point out ( again!) that the problems with overcrowding, NHS waiting lists etc related to population growth is down to us- well, me anyway at 70 +. Fewer babies are being born than ever before. People live longer, and may develop increasingly ( expensive) health needs, and require specialist support, housing and so on. Whether young healthy immigrants can do the jobs we'll need done in the future I can't say, but it's very likely that we won't have sufficient young home grown folk to do the jobs we creaking oldies might need, nor pay enough tax and NI to support the top heavy populace. It's not immigration swelling the numbers, honestly.

westendgirl Tue 14-Mar-23 10:24:56

Maudi did you not see that 44 Tories did not support the bill, that several spoke of their reservations.Robert Buckland said this morning " I think a lot of us who decided the principle of the bill to go forward were doing so on the basis that this bill would need further work."Teresa May spoke very strongly about her reservations .It's worth looking at what she said
.It seems without a lot of redrafting that this bill will not go forward. Let's hope not.

Whitewavemark2 Tue 14-Mar-23 09:51:47

So the Tories voted to effectively close the asylum process yesterday.

growstuff Tue 14-Mar-23 08:45:58

Maudi

The Labour Party, the Lib Dems and SNP all voted AGAINST trying to stop illegal migration into the UK last night.

Disgraceful, let's remember this when voting again.

Excellent!

I'll certainly remember it! :-)

(Not that any of those parties are against trying to control immigration.)

growstuff Tue 14-Mar-23 08:44:19

Allsorts

If it works and the boats stop, if they inject more money into our armed forces and actually listen to them and treat them with respect I will vote for them.

But there is absolutely no guarantee that any boats will stop. The traffickers will do what they've always done, which is to land on deserted beaches. Their passengers will be told to keep their heads down and not to apply for asylum. Maybe they'll even have a "job" lined up for them. What the poor sods don't realise is that they'll probably be caught and deported permanently.

Meanwhile, the traffickers will have no problems finding new customers and the boats will continue - just maybe a bit better hidden.

If you really are concerned about the well-being of genuine asylum seekers, you need to support safe routes.

MaizieD Tue 14-Mar-23 08:03:46

Allsorts

If it works and the boats stop, if they inject more money into our armed forces and actually listen to them and treat them with respect I will vote for them.

It isn't going to work, Allsorts, any more than any of their previous legislation has worked. A year ago the Rwanda scheme was trumpeted as being a solution to all the problems. Has even one single person been removed to Rwanda? Of course not.

It is possible that this bill might not even become law before the next general election; the House of Lords will hold it up for a long time, potentially it could be for a year..

Even if it made it into law there would be so many appeals and test cases that it would be completely at a standstill.

The only purpose of this bill is to get votes for the tories. They are banking on the racists and xenophobes not actually noticing that it doesn't work...

Maudi Tue 14-Mar-23 08:03:01

The Labour Party, the Lib Dems and SNP all voted AGAINST trying to stop illegal migration into the UK last night.

Disgraceful, let's remember this when voting again.

Allsorts Tue 14-Mar-23 07:47:48

If it works and the boats stop, if they inject more money into our armed forces and actually listen to them and treat them with respect I will vote for them.

growstuff Tue 14-Mar-23 04:01:00

And leaving hyperbole to the red tops.

growstuff Tue 14-Mar-23 03:59:27

Germanshepherdsmum

I shall await your lead growstuff. I could offer an anecdotal story but better not.

No, not anecdotes, but dealing with facts (and the law as it stands) would be helpful.

Siope Mon 13-Mar-23 21:15:17

I was sidetracked by Only Connect. I gather someone from the DUP made a sensible intervention, which I have to admit surprises me.

Allsorts, I think you are going to be very disappointed in the actual effects of this legislation.

Wyllow3 Mon 13-Mar-23 20:02:00

Albanian Kurds are persecuted.
Its important to understand its not a "one size fits all".'

MaizieD Mon 13-Mar-23 19:58:30

All the Albanians could go back for a start. Albania is safe and they will take them.

You will, no doubt, be furious to hear that some Albanians are actually granted asylum.

Can't send them back until they've been sorted.