Missing people and the Police

There is a fast-growing tendency to bash the police for any and every perceived failing regardless of the facts and resources as a result of a very small number of high profile cases. It makes for lots of easy-to-write newspaper and social media copy and TV punditry. Policing needs improvement but let us not forget police resources are stretched and ultimately determined by this Tory government.

We have the find my phone app on our phones it tracks within a few yards if there is a phone signal. I can even track my brother and sister in the US which is interesting because brother travels a lot, his company relocates him week by week.

I’m puzzled by this. Were they all reported missing at the same time? Or was it a case of the mothers reporting their daughters missing as one of the mothers has said the men were strangers. Perhaps nobody realised 5 were missing at first. That may have influenced things.

Yes, I read that too Callistemon21.

Delila

Thanks Sammz2, that’s interesting. Perhaps the police did eventually look into the phone location data to search in that general area?

Yes, unfortunately they may have taken a while to piece together disjointed information coming from various families.

The police were searching in the area on foot but it has been reported that it was a member of the public who found the car, apparently.

Sorry, Sammz21

Thanks Sammz2, that’s interesting. Perhaps the police did eventually look into the phone location data to search in that general area?

Yes, unfortunately they may have taken a while to piece together disjointed information coming from various families.

That came across.

I'm afraid they have brought down consequences they never could have intended by making it so public..

I was trying to explain that I wasn't blaming

Just feeling for the family

Yards not years in opening line.

The tragedy lies partly in the fact that had they been just a few years closer to the road, they would have been found very quickly. But in the absence of information about which direct they had gone in, only a full on helicopter search of a huge area could have done the job. With the information given, was this a realistic expectation given all the other events happening that night?

I'm appalled at whats coming out about sexism and racism in the police, I feel angry, I feel there was/are in some places a collective OTOH I was treated very well when I needed help and called police to my home and it was young men.

But I cant really see how it relates to this incident.

In rushing to blame the police, it might hurt the families more than they might imagine.

Information on the state of the driver and others will come out at a PM: and inquest: which will now be a source of media interest. The remaining two, instead of a quiet recovery and help grieving, could be subject to all kinds of media attention.

Blame is often something that is misplaced, this is emotional, a lot of us have children or grandchildren out in cars living life.

While I think that this should have been looked into as soon as it was realised 5 young people had all gone dark at the same moment...

It is also an accidental tragedy and I don't necessarily blame the police for this.

The police are underfunded and undermanned.

In order for them to be able to not have to prioritise case loads so much, the time and manpower needs to be there doesn't it.

That just won't bring any comfort to relatives if it is found out that anyone could have been saved if found sooner

I am considering asking my children to join some set of tracking app with me with a promise only to use it for emergency.

Five young people missing for 48hrs before they're found. And yet a Lancashire woman disappears and a manhunt ensues.
I want to think positively about the police. However when I read yesterday that the police ignored the murderer of Sarah Everard exposing himself, when the staff gave them a description of his car including the reg number AND details of the credit card used and the name of the owner, I wonder if somehow judgements based on stereotypes are being employed.

Delila

Can phones be checked for approximate location, eg by “pinging” a nearby mast, or is that only on tv dramas? If it can be ascertained that five phones are silent & stationary for a long period near a very busy main road, wouldn’t it be a good idea to check the situation, given that 5 people were reported missing.

The phone data from their phones will show the cell phone tower their phones last 'pinged' from.
However, this covers a wide radius, thus, it will not give the exact location.
However, it would certainly narrow down the search area.
It just seems such an unfortunate set of circumstances. 🌻

Where blame is due, lay it.

but isnt it a relatively new thing to automatically "Blame"

instead of waiting for details of circumstances? there will be information from the two who survived.

Stuff of nightmares those poor poor families but we all always need someone to blame but I don’t think the police were necessarily to blame They were not young teenagers they were all in their twenties and one lad was thirty Many parents don’t know where their grown up children are on nights out at that age They had been out and about I m sure the police would not have seen red flags so early in the story but it is a total tragedy that they went into a tree lined copse and weren’t noticeable from the road Dozens of cars must have gone passed and noticed nothing

If you look on FB every day there are numerous posts of missing daughters and sons usually 13 year olds or young teens with parents going bananas ringing police for help they are usually found the same day or the next day and go home with their tails between their legs I think we all underestimate how many time the police get ‘missing’ reports.

It’s easy to lay blame when you are in such painful grief

Callistemon21

Casdon

Zoejory

Casdon

According to the police the first missing person report was made to Gwent Police at 7.34pm on Saturday 4th March, so it does look as though the families weren’t originally concerned enough to contact the police either. They probably didn’t realise that all their social media had stopped at the same time until later on that evening when they started piecing the accounts together.

The family had been phoning and a mother of one of the girls was told to stop phoning.

I think 7.34 was the time the police alert went out

No, what I said was correct according to the police report, here it is.
www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/police-lay-out-facts-investigation-26409620

Possibly it was the first time it was logged?

Perhaps other calls by a worried mother were dismissed and not logged.

I don’t know, I’d have thought the police logged every call received, but maybe they don’t. If not, it was misleading for the report they published not to mention that.

I took it personally becuase As well as the young policeman I encountered, coercive abuse journey, I'm very MH aware and know how desperate calls upon the police at night can be. If thats grubby then I'm sorry.

I also have a Quaker friend whose son is an armed police officer, and a young policeman came to our Quaker meeting looking for support:

all those 4 felt their night work amongst people and crime incidents struggling for many reasons were far from "grubby".

Like I said, city centre drinking is pretty grubby! but the other calls on their time.

I'm glad the police have immediately referred themselves because we'll be able to see the pressures and priorities on that particular night.

We'll also sadly find out if the driver was impaired in anyway: alcohol or drugs: there will be information from those who survived which I'm very hopeful will NOT be in the public domain.

I think the police will ask seriously "did we give it enough attention or make assumptions" but if we find out the driver was impaired then I hope for the families it is kept private.

Five sets of parents expressing similar concerns should not have been ignored. Families usually have a pretty good idea of when to start worrying.

Callistemon21

The mother of Sophie Russon claims:

Ms Certowicz claimed she first phoned Gwent Police at noon on Saturday, and made a total of 10 calls that day, but police told her that Ms Russon was "probably out partying".

Ms Certowicz says she drove round searching for her daughter herself after her fears were dismissed by the police.

Both Forces have referred themselves to the IOPC.

Thank you, Callistemon21

I believe her

What a tragic accident. Although if the parents were used to getting calls when they arrived home or if they were going to be out late maybe that was a red flag. However as most people are saying where would they have started to look? I know that no matter how many times I tell my granddaughter (22) to call or text me when she gets home safe, most of the time she forgets. On occasion she has stayed at a friends and not told anyone either.

Theexwife

Even if the police had taken their disappearance seriously, where would they have looked? Thousands of cars drove past the spot where the car went off the road and did not spot it.

A tragic accident, sometimes there is no one to blame.

Exactly this.
I don’t believe the police were at fault in this case.Five friends in a car could have gone anywhere.

Can phones be checked for approximate location, eg by “pinging” a nearby mast, or is that only on tv dramas? If it can be ascertained that five phones are silent & stationary for a long period near a very busy main road, wouldn’t it be a good idea to check the situation, given that 5 people were reported missing.

a heat -seeking camera sweep from the police helicopter over the main routes might have detected the vehicle sooner.
how can a previous poster say it wouldn't have made any difference if the vehicle was discovered sooner.
i think that is unlikely to be true.

The mother of Sophie Russon claims:

Ms Certowicz claimed she first phoned Gwent Police at noon on Saturday, and made a total of 10 calls that day, but police told her that Ms Russon was "probably out partying".

Ms Certowicz says she drove round searching for her daughter herself after her fears were dismissed by the police.

Both Forces have referred themselves to the IOPC.