Going after the economically disadvantaged!

The bad quotation system on Gransnet makes it look as if I wrote what Growstuff copied, above. Please NB I did not write it.

Thanks again Daisy Anne. You are very perceptive.

Katie59

Caleo
You are right some religions do demand that you give 10% or whatever of you income to their charity to help the poor. To get help the poor have to attend the Temple, Mosque or Church to get it, there are usually strings.

The ultra rich often give much of their fortune to charity, many art galleries and great houses have been gifted, others sponsor health campaigns, like Bill Gates. Lower down the scale there are bequests to charities in many wills as well as regular sponsorships.

It's not true that the "poor" of those religions have to attend a place of worship.

I know Jews who gift 10% of their income to secular charities. The Liverpool footballer, Mo Salah, gives 10% of his income to a school and hospital in his hometown in Egypt.

Please don't attribute to me claims I have never made.

And, by the way, I'd happily swap your income with mine. You can have some of my stress too, as you're obviously so good at dealing with it.

GrannyGravy13

growstuff if you think that owners of SME’s do not pay tax I am happy to swop my tax bill for yours, along with all the headaches and pressures associated with being a business owner.

Where on earth did I claim that the owners of SMEs don't pay tax?

Caleo

Thanks Daisy Anne, I shall look into my motives and see if they are as dark as you say.

I don't see them as dark motives, just a different and rather judgemental view of "other people".

Katie, it's true there are many kind and generous individuals. However the days are gone when the Church controlled charitable spending, and our legacy is post-Christian, secular ,and just as necessary for a civilised country as the Church was in the old days a few hundred years ago.

Thanks Daisy Anne, I shall look into my motives and see if they are as dark as you say.

Caleo
You are right some religions do demand that you give 10% or whatever of you income to their charity to help the poor. To get help the poor have to attend the Temple, Mosque or Church to get it, there are usually strings.

The ultra rich often give much of their fortune to charity, many art galleries and great houses have been gifted, others sponsor health campaigns, like Bill Gates. Lower down the scale there are bequests to charities in many wills as well as regular sponsorships.

Whoever it was for Caleo you seem to be one of a few on GN who hold a very poor opinion of "other people".

Some people are good-hearted, some are not. Some people would work as a community, some would not. However, as we have always moved forward and progressed - all of us - then I would suggest there are more of the former than the latter.

Sorry I am getting mixed up. It was for Katie

Sorry, I should have addressed the above to Growstuff.

But Katie, people pay taxes because they must, not because they are altruistic.

When secular governments lacked laws to prevent the poor starving there were religious rules that demanded charity e.g. tithing. If there were no rules at all we would not be a society.

Even the Tories approve of a measure of public welfare. But not as much as does Labour.

Some of us are natural leaders and convince other to join them easily, for the rest to do better you have to learn a skill because working for minimum wage will never improve your lot.

My skill was nursing, husband worked days, I worked mostly nights, no subsidized childcare in those days. It was bloody tough, but I was making more than him and raised 4 kids along the way.

With internet and online trading it’s never been easier to earn money from home, no overheads either, if I had my time again that’s what I would do.

growstuff if you think that owners of SME’s do not pay tax I am happy to swop my tax bill for yours, along with all the headaches and pressures associated with being a business owner.

Katie59

If you think human nature is not biologically greedy then you are too optimistic .

Not “greedy” because if we didn’t have enterprise nobody would pay taxes to help those less fortunate.

I would call it “ambition” the wish for a better life and to do better for your family.

The better off also benefit from taxation, which pays for roads, the army, police, monitoring the environment, etc. Everybody benefits from having a relatively well-educated and healthy workforce. The alternative for people who don't want to pay tax would be to live and maybe set up a business in a country without safe, passable roads, employ private security forces, have staff with no functional skills and dispose of them if they get ill, have private air and water filtration systems. People choose to live and do business in developed countries for a reason.

Apologies Maizie for more or less duplicating your post yesterday at 11.09. I responded to GSM as soon as I read it, without reading further.

If you think human nature is not biologically greedy then you are too optimistic .

Not “greedy” because if we didn’t have enterprise nobody would pay taxes to help those less fortunate.

I would call it “ambition” the wish for a better life and to do better for your family.

I didn’t have children when I was studying. Not until some years after I qualified. I have never underestimated the help my mother gave me after my son was born. To counterbalance that, as you talk about ‘people’, I had an abusive husband for almost a quarter of a century. Nevertheless I am entirely satisfied with the life I have now, though you seem to think I’m not, for some inexplicable reason.

My post came about purely because of the accusation that Conservatives don’t believe in social mobility - an illustration that such a statement is entirely false.

GrannyGravy13

Any share profit or dividends paid over and above £2,000 are now taxed at the going rate.

No NIC is paid, then again nobody over retirement age pays NIC.

You are being disingenuous here methinks.

Assuming that you wish to benefit from the tax reliefs available to you, here is a back of the fag packet scenario

As a company director:
Salary 9,600 tax £ Nil
Dividend 50,000 tax £6,273
NIC (employee contribution) £848

As an employee
Salary £59,600 tax £11272.00
NIC (employee contribution) £2,494

The tax rates on the dividends 8.75% basic rate (compared with 20% on earnings) and 33.75% higher rate (compared with
40% on earnings.

Fantastic post DaisyAnne.

Germanshepherdsmum

Person who worked damned hard, yes against the odds and without help. I’m merely trying to say that you can instil a work ethic and desire to succeed in your children and that some Conservative voters not only approve of social mobility and want to see more of it, they are personal examples of it.

When say it’s ‘over-egged’, you imply that I’m lying or embroidering the truth. I don’t lie. You come across as envious of success and what it brings.

I'm sorry you think what I said was nasty. More than anything, I feel sorry for you. Why would I be envious? Everyone I know works or has worked "damned hard", often for much less than the picture you paint of your rewards. Some live their lives against great odds, and some with a lot of luck.

I think I remember you said your mother helped with childcare. Why can't you count that blessing? Not everyone has that help. Some even have to add parent care at a time when they already have the sort of difficulties you faced.

You have enough talent to become a solicitor. For some people, no matter how hard they work, that will not happen. For some, they will be lucky to even be able to become independent. No, I was not saying you lied or embroidered what you said. I can see you are telling your life as you see it. However, I am sorry you cannot see the good things and people in your life.

I have said as little about myself as possible. Personally, I don't think it is appropriate to post our lives online. I have been so lucky in my life and would love to be the "luck" in others' lives. I have many much-loved people around me and have been given a chance to develop because of the inspiration and encouragement offered by those I have met. There have been bumps in the road, but I don't know anyone who wouldn't say that. I have found that some of the most inspiring people have often had the biggest "bumps". I wish for your sake you could feel more satisfied. It is a wise person who appreciates those in life who have influenced their path. Those around us do in everyone's life. None of us will have got where we are on our own.

If you’re saying I’m smug (which I’m not but I have always been proud of what I achieved by myself and make no apology for that), then evidently not as I didn’t go to university.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

It may help you to understand my desire to achieve, DA, if I explain that my father was a clever man who could have gone far if he hadn’t gone blind in his late teens. It must have been a huge frustration for him. I wanted him to be proud of me. He was.