Going after the economically disadvantaged!

They do indeed karmalady but it’s not sufficiently well publicised - hence this thread.

Luckygirl3 how right you are! As the OP I am NOT condoning tolerating benefit fraud but pointing out there is more revenue pursuing the tax fraudsters -and they have more 'help'!. As Grantanow highlights there is masses of tax evasion which the current government allow. The law and I do believe, focus, needs shifting. While I accept it is different authorities chasing the fraudsters, I do believe there are some benefits frauds which tie up the courts unnecessarily!

rafichagran

GagaJo

I doubt if that occurs when people are trying to feed their children or keep a roof over their heads.

I disagree gagajust because people are on benefits does not make them not know right from wrong.
In the work I do I come across many people on benefits and they do not commit fraud.
Times are hard at the moment, and prices are rising, but they manage, and their children are not hungry.

I disagree with you. I've seen the children at schools in the NE. Their parents are finding it hard to meet living expenses and have to resort to food banks to feed their children. Those aren't people who are managing. Not to mention the housing crisis. Rental housing is hard to find and is hugely expensive. There are huge waiting lists for social housing.

How you can't see that this isn't a crisis I don't know. So yes, people have to resort to topping up benefits. Legally fraud. But morally, trying to keep body and soul together.

CvD66

Luckygirl3 how right you are! As the OP I am NOT condoning tolerating benefit fraud but pointing out there is more revenue pursuing the tax fraudsters -and they have more 'help'!. As Grantanow highlights there is masses of tax evasion which the current government allow. The law and I do believe, focus, needs shifting. While I accept it is different authorities chasing the fraudsters, I do believe there are some benefits frauds which tie up the courts unnecessarily!

I agree. We only have to see some of the comments on here about the high-life that it is imagined people on benefits life. Totally fantasy of course.

But a shift in focus doesn't benefit the Tories does it, given that so many of them try to hugely minimize the amount of tax they pay. It's just another way to demonize the poor.

Do those who feel anyone on benefits getting any 'extra' is fraudulent think this extends to food they get from food banks?

I'm surprised the government haven't made that link yet.

At the end of February this year the Joseph Rowntree Foundation and the Trussell Trust reported these figures:

From a tweet by Paul Lewis:

Paul Lewis
@paullewismoney
Basic needs not covered below £120 a week for a single person and £200 for a couple says @jrf_uk and @TrussellTrust
. From April Universal Credit will be £85 a week single and £133 couple, and less for both if under 25 bit.ly/3Zt4OQN NB it’s paid monthly not weekly.

I don't see how people can be 'managing' on this without going without basic necessities or going deeply into debt.

VioletSky

The whole country is set up this way.

Blame the poor, keep them in their place. Have them so angry at each other they don't notice the rich quietly profiting off the backs of workforces who are inadequately compensated for their labour, without which their business and third homes wouldn't exist.

The truth is all the benefit frauds in a large town could not pay for one all expenses paid trip abroad for a bit of hand shaking by a politician.

Fraud is fraud yes, but there is a big difference between a few hundred and a few million.

Which is why we treat someone who steals a sandwich because they are hungry very differently to someone who robs a bank.

Fix the system, make it so that people are actually better off in work. Make sure they are adequately compensated for it, and benefit fraud likely goes away.

Or begrudge a hungry person a "sandwich" while a bank robber screws up everybody's interest rates and hides the money away where it benefits no-one and especially not the economy..

It's the British way apparently. Meanwhile, our wages quietly sink to an all-time low against many smarter European countries

Well said!

‘There are some benefits frauds which tie up the courts unnecessarily’. Which ones OP?

Oh GagaJo, that's an alarming thought isn't it - foodbank fraud?
I'm in favour of the Norwegian system, in which everyone's tax is a matter of public record and can be accessed by anyone. It might make interesting reading!

In a state of depression the black economy always booms. Many people look at the open graft, corruption and cronyism at the so called "top" of society and see no reason why they should be honest in a system that is so openly rotten to the core.

I pay cash in hand to several people who do jobs for me. Whether they declare it or not is "not my circus or my monkeys"

biglouis

In a state of depression the black economy always booms. Many people look at the open graft, corruption and cronyism at the so called "top" of society and see no reason why they should be honest in a system that is so openly rotten to the core.

I pay cash in hand to several people who do jobs for me. Whether they declare it or not is "not my circus or my monkeys"

Exactly biglouis! If our leaders led by example, they might have a foot to stand on. But look at Boris! He's the biggest scammer around. Our current leader's wife's tax affairs may have been legal but it was certainly wrong.

But some would rather we focused on the mum doing a couple of hours of cash-in-hand cleaning.

Getting 'any extra' in terms of benefits is only fraudulent if the recipient makes false claims in order to receive it GagaJo. Anyone making use of food banks when they have no need too is fraudulently depriving those in genuine need.

Gagajo
I have met many people on benefits in my line of work.
I can say that most are honest, yes of course being on benefits is hard, yes there is a housing crisis, but they manage to feed there children, and they know that fraud is wrong.
I was on the old family credit for a while I was a single parent and it was shockingly hard, but fraud never entered my head.
Most of the clients I see now are like me, that's why it bothers me you think it is excusable that they commit fraud because of their low income.

biglouis

In a state of depression the black economy always booms. Many people look at the open graft, corruption and cronyism at the so called "top" of society and see no reason why they should be honest in a system that is so openly rotten to the core.

I pay cash in hand to several people who do jobs for me. Whether they declare it or not is "not my circus or my monkeys"

biglouis I pay cash in hand to several people who do jobs for me. Whether they declare it or not is "not my circus or my monkeys"

I pay in cash often. Others declaring cash is not my worry.

I pay the window cleaner cash, what he does with it is up to him. I don't nose into how he conducts his finances.

I suspect that if those of you who pay cleaners etc in cash would be asked to pay more if you wanted to pay by cheque.
My OH before retirement was a furniture restorer. Occasionally he would be asked by a dealer new to him if they could pay him in cash for a reduction. The answer was always no because, part from anything else, we needed the money in the bank.

Blimey! I'd have to search high and low, if I wanted to pay somebody by cheque - I haven't a clue where my cheque book is. I rarely have much cash either, apart from a few coins for car parks which don't accept contactless payment.

This was several years ago.

CvD66

Luckygirl3 how right you are! As the OP I am NOT condoning tolerating benefit fraud but pointing out there is more revenue pursuing the tax fraudsters -and they have more 'help'!. As Grantanow highlights there is masses of tax evasion which the current government allow. The law and I do believe, focus, needs shifting. While I accept it is different authorities chasing the fraudsters, I do believe there are some benefits frauds which tie up the courts unnecessarily!

It shifted before. About between 2008 and 2016, roughly.
It didnt work.
Cant see it will work any better now than it did then.
Unless a government are prepared to hire and pay the best lawyers the UK has.

CvD66

Luckygirl3 how right you are! As the OP I am NOT condoning tolerating benefit fraud but pointing out there is more revenue pursuing the tax fraudsters -and they have more 'help'!. As Grantanow highlights there is masses of tax evasion which the current government allow. The law and I do believe, focus, needs shifting. While I accept it is different authorities chasing the fraudsters, I do believe there are some benefits frauds which tie up the courts unnecessarily!

Grantanow didn't highlight masses of tax evasion (illegal)
allowed by the government, they highlighted all the legal tax avoidance.

There is a clear difference between the two.

You need forensic accountants to detect and prove tax evasion, not lawyers fancythat. And specialist lawyers to prosecute. Neither comes cheap.

It was the lawyers that were the problem the last time around.

Can you clarify that?

I will get back to you.

There is a drive to recover monies, often going back much further than is usual, from people who have been overpaid due to errors or fraud. Errors, by government or claimant, have always been lumped together with "fraud". The level of actual benefit fraud is very low.

Many people now having to repay these, often government errors, are only just finding they occurred years ago. As circumstances often haven't changed - the low-paid are often still the low-paid, for example - this money is being taken from the amount calculated as what the person currently needs to live on.

In contrast, a report just issued says that only 1% of £1.1bn lost in the Covid business scheme as a result of fraud and error, has been recovered.