Going after the economically disadvantaged!

Apologies Maizie for more or less duplicating your post yesterday at 11.09. I responded to GSM as soon as I read it, without reading further.

Katie59

If you think human nature is not biologically greedy then you are too optimistic .

Not “greedy” because if we didn’t have enterprise nobody would pay taxes to help those less fortunate.

I would call it “ambition” the wish for a better life and to do better for your family.

The better off also benefit from taxation, which pays for roads, the army, police, monitoring the environment, etc. Everybody benefits from having a relatively well-educated and healthy workforce. The alternative for people who don't want to pay tax would be to live and maybe set up a business in a country without safe, passable roads, employ private security forces, have staff with no functional skills and dispose of them if they get ill, have private air and water filtration systems. People choose to live and do business in developed countries for a reason.

growstuff if you think that owners of SME’s do not pay tax I am happy to swop my tax bill for yours, along with all the headaches and pressures associated with being a business owner.

Some of us are natural leaders and convince other to join them easily, for the rest to do better you have to learn a skill because working for minimum wage will never improve your lot.

My skill was nursing, husband worked days, I worked mostly nights, no subsidized childcare in those days. It was bloody tough, but I was making more than him and raised 4 kids along the way.

With internet and online trading it’s never been easier to earn money from home, no overheads either, if I had my time again that’s what I would do.

But Katie, people pay taxes because they must, not because they are altruistic.

When secular governments lacked laws to prevent the poor starving there were religious rules that demanded charity e.g. tithing. If there were no rules at all we would not be a society.

Even the Tories approve of a measure of public welfare. But not as much as does Labour.

Sorry, I should have addressed the above to Growstuff.

Sorry I am getting mixed up. It was for Katie

Whoever it was for Caleo you seem to be one of a few on GN who hold a very poor opinion of "other people".

Some people are good-hearted, some are not. Some people would work as a community, some would not. However, as we have always moved forward and progressed - all of us - then I would suggest there are more of the former than the latter.

Caleo
You are right some religions do demand that you give 10% or whatever of you income to their charity to help the poor. To get help the poor have to attend the Temple, Mosque or Church to get it, there are usually strings.

The ultra rich often give much of their fortune to charity, many art galleries and great houses have been gifted, others sponsor health campaigns, like Bill Gates. Lower down the scale there are bequests to charities in many wills as well as regular sponsorships.

Thanks Daisy Anne, I shall look into my motives and see if they are as dark as you say.

Katie, it's true there are many kind and generous individuals. However the days are gone when the Church controlled charitable spending, and our legacy is post-Christian, secular ,and just as necessary for a civilised country as the Church was in the old days a few hundred years ago.

Caleo

Thanks Daisy Anne, I shall look into my motives and see if they are as dark as you say.

I don't see them as dark motives, just a different and rather judgemental view of "other people".

GrannyGravy13

growstuff if you think that owners of SME’s do not pay tax I am happy to swop my tax bill for yours, along with all the headaches and pressures associated with being a business owner.

Where on earth did I claim that the owners of SMEs don't pay tax?

Please don't attribute to me claims I have never made.

And, by the way, I'd happily swap your income with mine. You can have some of my stress too, as you're obviously so good at dealing with it.

Katie59

Caleo
You are right some religions do demand that you give 10% or whatever of you income to their charity to help the poor. To get help the poor have to attend the Temple, Mosque or Church to get it, there are usually strings.

The ultra rich often give much of their fortune to charity, many art galleries and great houses have been gifted, others sponsor health campaigns, like Bill Gates. Lower down the scale there are bequests to charities in many wills as well as regular sponsorships.

It's not true that the "poor" of those religions have to attend a place of worship.

I know Jews who gift 10% of their income to secular charities. The Liverpool footballer, Mo Salah, gives 10% of his income to a school and hospital in his hometown in Egypt.

Thanks again Daisy Anne. You are very perceptive.

The bad quotation system on Gransnet makes it look as if I wrote what Growstuff copied, above. Please NB I did not write it.