Leeds's Victorian bear pit in Headingley set to reopen to public.

Ah pheeew DaisyAnn, so a sculpture, to remind people of how cruelly these animals were treated, and to make people/children think.

Nothing wrong with that at all.

Callistemon21

I'm feeling rather at the moment, Kalu about the wanton felling of trees in Plymouth, carried out on the orders of one man, by stealth in the middle of the night.

I did attempt to start a thread about it, it took ages with links and quotes but then the post disappeared!

I looked at the photographs of the aftermath - the avenue looked a bit like a war zone.

An arbitrary decision taken by one man after scant consultation, and done at night with security guards in attendance - very Orwellian.

I understand the need for development, but this is not the way to go about it - and who is going to benefit from it? Will it be yet more retail outlets? Will the redevelopment improve life for the residents?

ixion What exactly are these apparently unacceptable Victorian customs which are being legitimised? You've lost me.

Dickens

Callistemon21

I'm feeling rather at the moment, Kalu about the wanton felling of trees in Plymouth, carried out on the orders of one man, by stealth in the middle of the night.

I did attempt to start a thread about it, it took ages with links and quotes but then the post disappeared!

I looked at the photographs of the aftermath - the avenue looked a bit like a war zone.

An arbitrary decision taken by one man after scant consultation, and done at night with security guards in attendance - very Orwellian.

I understand the need for development, but this is not the way to go about it - and who is going to benefit from it? Will it be yet more retail outlets? Will the redevelopment improve life for the residents?

He seemed to have visions of a Mediterranean style café culture in Armada Way with evergreens and those tall Cypress trees.

Sorry, but it was fine as it was. There was no indication that the trees were dangerous.

Apparently he claimed it was part of the Government's Regeneration Project for towns and cities and yes, some improvements might have been welcomed but vandalising all the trees in a city is not one.

I don't take issue with a restored building or gardens with a scultpture. I would if a real bear was being put in there but it isn't.

The tree thing though, what on earth?!!

NanaDana

ixion What exactly are these apparently unacceptable Victorian customs which are being legitimised? You've lost me.

Lost me, too.

Is it the fact that it was part of a zoo?

JaneJudge

I don't take issue with a restored building or gardens with a scultpture. I would if a real bear was being put in there but it isn't.

The tree thing though, what on earth?!!

I don't want real bears in pits - but that was never the truth so why the Mrs Angry attack group on here?

I don't want to see trees unnecessarily cut down - but what is the truth about that? I am still only hearing from the Mrs Angry group. Do you know all the details?

I had the very disturbing experience of seeing dancing bears some years ago.
The situation got very ugly when one of our friends challenged the owner.

MerylStreep

I had the very disturbing experience of seeing dancing bears some years ago.
The situation got very ugly when one of our friends challenged the owner.

About 35 years ago we took the DC to a festival at a country park and there was a man with a 'dancing bear' who had come over from Europe. People were not at all happy and complained to the organisers.

My children were upset. I remember taking the youngest to Bristol Zoo years ago and she was very upset and crying at seeing the lions in a cage.
The Zoo has now closed and the latest two lions relocated to The Big Cat Sanctuary.

Thank you for your replies!
I guess my discomfort arises from the fact that an exhibition, if you like, is being made which showcases a less than favourable set up of Victorian (and later!) practices.
In much the same way, I would not expect to see a contemporary statute of a dancing bear and his owner, or an organ grinder and his dressed up monkey in public.
I think that questioning the role of the early zoos - were they really to educate or rather to entertain visitors? is worthy of debate elsewhere.

And yes, I was taken to see Brumas at London Zoo in his concrete playground, and Guy the Gorilla, who notoriously tried to strangle his keeper, in his cage.
Did they educate, or did we gawp?

No need for a reconstruction, surely?

DaisyAnne

JaneJudge

I don't take issue with a restored building or gardens with a scultpture. I would if a real bear was being put in there but it isn't.

The tree thing though, what on earth?!!

I don't want real bears in pits - but that was never the truth so why the Mrs Angry attack group on here?

I don't want to see trees unnecessarily cut down - but what is the truth about that? I am still only hearing from the Mrs Angry group. Do you know all the details?

I don;t understand am I Mrs Angry?

I googled the tree thing, it does look unecessary as they were surrounded by shops

Are you a Mrs Angry? I didn't check; the comment was general

The "tree thing" will have two sides to it. I just wonder how, without the knowledge of both, anyone make a decision about what happened?

The OP suggests that money is being spent on doing up a real bear pit, where in the past a bear was set upon by dogs.
That isn’t the case so I see nothing distasteful about it.

Where, pray, did I intimate that I thought it was a real bear pit?
😱

The OP naturally suggests it ixion by the words ‘bear pit ‘and ‘in poor taste’ to do it up.
Not your intention am sure, but that’s the impression it gives.

Er, no
The title was cut and pasted from the BBC article, to which the link refers directly. So not my words at all.

You may have thought the restoration was in perfectly reasonable taste. I didn't, hence my general question.

For my part, I don't really care what its original purpose was.
I didn't like the proposal and sought opinions.

What don’t you like about it ixion ?

Just seen your earlier post.Because it was a city zoo.

What do the citizens of Leeds think about it?

ixion

Er, no
The title was cut and pasted from the BBC article, to which the link refers directly. So not my words at all.

You may have thought the restoration was in perfectly reasonable taste. I didn't, hence my general question.

For my part, I don't really care what its original purpose was.
I didn't like the proposal and sought opinions.

Isn't it for those living in the Leeds City Council area to decide? It's their money being spent, after all.

DaisyAnne

ixion

Er, no
The title was cut and pasted from the BBC article, to which the link refers directly. So not my words at all.

You may have thought the restoration was in perfectly reasonable taste. I didn't, hence my general question.

For my part, I don't really care what its original purpose was.
I didn't like the proposal and sought opinions.

Isn't it for those living in the Leeds City Council area to decide? It's their money being spent, after all.

It's nothing to do with Leeds Council. It's the Civic Society that is planning to restore it and finance the restoration. It's all in the BBC article linked to in the OP.

Oreo

The OP suggests that money is being spent on doing up a real bear pit, where in the past a bear was set upon by dogs.
That isn’t the case so I see nothing distasteful about it.

I don't think the OP suggests that at all. I think it was me who first mentioned bear baiting and that was just to say that as the pit wasn't connected to bearbaiting I didn't see any problem with it being restored.

It's as well to remember, I suppose, that these threads end up like Chinese Whispers, full of misreading and misinterpretations. Especially as some posters don't bother to read the whole thread before responding to the OP.

MaizieD

DaisyAnne

ixion

Er, no
The title was cut and pasted from the BBC article, to which the link refers directly. So not my words at all.

You may have thought the restoration was in perfectly reasonable taste. I didn't, hence my general question.

For my part, I don't really care what its original purpose was.
I didn't like the proposal and sought opinions.

Isn't it for those living in the Leeds City Council area to decide? It's their money being spent, after all.

It's nothing to do with Leeds Council. It's the Civic Society that is planning to restore it and finance the restoration. It's all in the BBC article linked to in the OP.

Thank you for the correction Maizie.

In that case, the subscriptions and donations seem to me to be most likely to have come from those living in or with a connection to Leeds.

However, whoever and wherever the money comes from, this is a society with its own rules. So even more their business how they spend the money than it is anyone with no connection whatsoever.

I’ve just checked out the Leeds+ Facebook page and the reaction from Headingley locals seems to be positive on the whole. Plenty of people are saying how good it will be to have this dilapidated site cleaned up at long last and brought into community use.

There are others who think the appalling bear baiting that wasn’t actually carried out there shouldn’t be celebrated.

Some who feel so strongly about zoos being cruel that they don’t want this one to be remembered in any way - a valid opinion of course, but I can’t help wondering why they don’t campaign to have existing zoos closed, instead of fretting about this very small, short-lived one that closed down in the Victorian era. Apart from the bear, it only had a pair of swans, birds of prey, tortoises and “some monkeys”. No wonder it didn’t last long!

Some who want the money spent on filling in potholes, oblivious to the fact that it’s the Leeds Civic Trust charity’s money, not Leeds Council’s.

And a special few who are up in arms because they’ve understood that real live bears are going to be brought back to be put on public display in the Headingley bear pit and that would be so cruel. It takes all sorts.

I have a very distant memory of being taken to see a bear there. I must have been about 4 . I was always sad in zoos and seeing animals in captivity ,especially in the old days when the cages were vile. Now they are much,much better and at least try to make them look a bit like their native surroundings. I would knock the rotten thing down and bulldoze it if it were me.