Rotten pork

Pasture for Life is clearly a brand all producers adopt common standards a use the logo.
Organic is very similar and I asked the question why be separate. I know a lot of farmers have given up organic it works if you are rich, King Charles, Chatsworth or Daylesford, if you have to pay a commercial rent or have a mortgage you won’t pay the bills.

The organic offering in Waitrose is pretty poor why anyone would pay double for poorer quality beats me, because of that there is a lot of wastage too

Katie59 I am not sure what you have been reading, but there is a large and thriving organic sector in the UK, including organic meat. My first conversion to organic was when I bought some organic meat and realised what high quality it was. I have never bought organic meat that has not been locally reared

'Pasture for Life' is not a brand it is a distinct way of rearing cattle that is highly environmentally sensitive. Many people know of Knepp Farm in Sussex, a farm that has been 'rewilded', they are members of Pasture for Life.

As far as I know PfL is not a breakaway from the organic movement. In many ways they share values, but PforL is specifically aimed at being carbon neutral and even carbon positive by using natural grazing patterns that can lead to carbom sequestration. It also aims at returning cattle to their instinctive ways of grazing and moving around landscape.

Yes, of course, they use breeds that are adapted to this way of living, they would be daft not to to, any way of farming uses cattle and crops adapted to its purpose.

Monica mentioned “Pasture for Life” it’s not a brand I’ve been aware of so I checked up.

Its standards are very similar to Organic, but they don’t feed any grain or any harvested roots but they do allow grazing roots. A sheep system adapts easily to that because many are fattened outdoors on turnips in conventional systems.

Beef it’s more difficult almost all are yarded in winter, it just causes too much mess and soil damage to outwinter. Slower growing, native breeds would need to be used that get fat sooner on lower quality feeds - hay and silage.

If the customer is willing to pay a 25% premium then it should be a worthwhile system BUT why be different to Organic which is much more widely recognized, the standards are very similar, or are they a group that have “fallen out” with the Organic movement.

Personally the poor quality of Organic produce puts me off, a large quantity of which is imported and I know a lot of UK farmers have tried but failed to make a living out of organic.

corsetclique

It's true that no one has died in the United Kingdom because of this incident so far, but many have in the recent past, and not every case of food poisoning leading to death makes headlines. That occurred in this case because the maker was so careless for so long. word wipe

I am reporting your spam posts

corsetclique

It's true that no one has died in the United Kingdom because of this incident so far, but many have in the recent past, and not every case of food poisoning leading to death makes headlines. That occurred in this case because the maker was so careless for so long. word wipe

Not all cases of food poisoning lead to death either.

Message deleted by Gransnet for breaking our forum guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

People have the right to be vegan, vegetarian or to buy meat which is more environmentally sound.

They also have a right to think that any meat they buy from a recognised retail outlet will be safe to eat. They shouldn't have to pay a premium to know that their meat isn't rotten.

Norah Do you not have any curiosity aboutpeople who live differently to you, I am consumed with an endless curiousty about everything, so i do look at the range of foods for people with different lives to mine. There is so much fake meat available - and shops wouldn't stock it, if there was not the demand.

As for beef, buy Pasture for Life beef and you are buying meat that is environmentally neutral and this method of farming can be carbon positive because the farming methods used can lead to cattle contributing to carbon sequestration.

M0nica

Norah I did not say that the vegan diet as a whole, was based on UPFs, but you have only to look at the range of manufactured Vegan foods, all the fake meats, fish, dairy products to know that if a vegan chose to base their diet on buying a lot of these products, then they would be eating an unhealthy diet. Those that exclude these produts will obviously not have a problem, but the range and quantity of these foods available, given the number of vegans, suggests that a lot of vegans are eating them.

When my DD was a child her closest friend was vegetarian. I would go to great lengths to prepare a nice vegetarian meal rich in vegetables and flavour, which wouldn't be eated by her. although DD loved it. I then discovered that when DD visited her the evening meals consisted of chips, cheese and chocolate Penguin biscuits and this was her friend's normal diet. I gave up and when she came I served chips cheese and chocolate biscuits.

I don't know about supposed vegan manufactured foods, never looked.

Apart from trying quorn and using it rarely - and the beef burger alternative which is very tasty but high in calories and fat - though lower than beef in cost and calories - I'm about vegetables. Nothing ever manufactured, but that was same when we ate meat.

I'd not paint vegans with the brush you're seeing where you shop.

But I'd never buy beef, for us, either. Too much downside, too bad for environment. I buy for our daughters and theirs, because they like beef. jambon, pork meat, fish and poultry. I draw my line at bacon.

Video of scientific evidence here

www.badgertrust.org.uk/cull

Lots of badgers where I live, and cows on pastures nearby.

No TB in cows = no TB in badgers.

Badgers are not the problem

Bovine TB is always present in the environment and can affect or be carried harmlessly by many species – livestock and wildlife alike. Yet the government has focused on badgers, even though 94% of cattle infections are from cow to cow. Many in the farming community wrongly believe that badgers are a significant vector in the spread of the disease. For many years, independent scientists, vets, researchers, as well as Badger Trust, have rightly challenged this claim.

​

The science behind the driving cause of the epidemic that is bTB in cattle includes a recent study on this badger vs cow debate, published in Vet Record in March 2022. The robust, and comprehensive analyses of DEFRA’s own data conducted by independent scientists, show clearly that there is no evidence that badger culling has had any impact on reducing bTB in cattle. By comparing cull and non-cull areas the study showed that any reduction in bTB in cattle was likely a result of cattle measures. Further analysis of ten county areas considered high-risk areas for bTB shows that in 9 out of 10 of these counties, bTB in cattle peaked and then began to fall before the government ever implemented a badger cull.

Is Badger Culling effective against bTB? This video explains the effectiveness of the badger cull.

Norah I did not say that the vegan diet as a whole, was based on UPFs, but you have only to look at the range of manufactured Vegan foods, all the fake meats, fish, dairy products to know that if a vegan chose to base their diet on buying a lot of these products, then they would be eating an unhealthy diet. Those that exclude these produts will obviously not have a problem, but the range and quantity of these foods available, given the number of vegans, suggests that a lot of vegans are eating them.

When my DD was a child her closest friend was vegetarian. I would go to great lengths to prepare a nice vegetarian meal rich in vegetables and flavour, which wouldn't be eated by her. although DD loved it. I then discovered that when DD visited her the evening meals consisted of chips, cheese and chocolate Penguin biscuits and this was her friend's normal diet. I gave up and when she came I served chips cheese and chocolate biscuits.

M0nica

All contestable claims Norah, except the last but one.

It depends what type of meat you eat and how much you eat. For me animal welfare is primary.

price isn't everything. A vegan diet based on Ultra Processed Foods would be very unhealthy.

Humans have evolved to be omnivores. This means wherever we have spread on earth we can survive on whatever food is available, from the predominantly meat based diet of those in the extreme far north to htose who have a more vegetable dominated diet.

No decision on food choices is inherently good or bad. Any food consumption pattern can be good or bad for humans depending on how they interprete it and how their own body has developed. Many of us have food allergies and intolerances that will shape our diet.

Norah, you may have chosen to be vegan, that is your choice and no one has any right to criticise that choice, but your choice is not inherently more virtuous, nor any better than anyone else's choice

I'm sure all claims on either side - vegan or eating animal products are contestable.

Neither side is virtuous. Virtue has nothing to do with food choices.

I'm not sure why anyone would think vegan food is UPF - primarily beans, pulses, lentils, cooked at home. I can't even find decent tempeh or falafel and have to make ours.

And yes, meat is more costly than vegan food. I know, I cook meat and it's by products all the time, for our daughters and theirs.

All contestable claims Norah, except the last but one.

It depends what type of meat you eat and how much you eat. For me animal welfare is primary.

price isn't everything. A vegan diet based on Ultra Processed Foods would be very unhealthy.

Humans have evolved to be omnivores. This means wherever we have spread on earth we can survive on whatever food is available, from the predominantly meat based diet of those in the extreme far north to htose who have a more vegetable dominated diet.

No decision on food choices is inherently good or bad. Any food consumption pattern can be good or bad for humans depending on how they interprete it and how their own body has developed. Many of us have food allergies and intolerances that will shape our diet.

Norah, you may have chosen to be vegan, that is your choice and no one has any right to criticise that choice, but your choice is not inherently more virtuous, nor any better than anyone else's choice

There is every reason not to eat meat if you

Care about your health, your weight, your risk of heart disease by lowering cholesterol levels and blood pressure.

Or if you care about your chances of getting certain types of cancer (colon cancer), or lowering high A1C levels.

Also less costly. Vegetable based meals are tasty.

Animal welfare is not primary, but important, imo.

Germanshepherdsmum

There is every reason not to eat meat if you don’t like the idea of an animal being slaughtered so that you can eat it.

Of course there are many reasons not to eat meat.

Animal slaughter.

Animals kept in horrible conditions, mad cow disease, cow methane gas impacting the planet, nitrous oxide emissions, deforestation, soil over cultivating to grow animal food. Bird flu, swine flu.

The cost of meat as compared to vegetable diet.

"The meat industry clears millions of acres of forested land to make room to graze cattle and grow crops for animal feed. This process, known as deforestation, releases stored carbon from forests into the atmosphere, exacerbating our climate crisis even further."

Well yes Monica. Our eldest became vegetarian at the age of 14- but her husband finally tempted her back to eating meat when she was about 30. They only eat the best meat from the best local butcher, from the best local farms, with their kids.

But it is VERY expensive- and I do mean VERY. They have excellent jobs and can afford it- but it is just not possible for most, especially currently with such huge inflation.

And as GSM says ...

There is every reason not to eat meat if you don’t like the idea of an animal being slaughtered so that you can eat it.

There is no reason to avoid eating meat. I moved to organic meat the moment I heard R4 Food programme talking about BSEit.

It is perfectly safe to eat meat if you stick to organic or Pasture for Life cattle.

It is more expensive but one just eats smaller portions or less frequently. We also eat cheaper cuts, as they are tastier and more versatile.

bought a box of odds and ends from Argentina and minced it

And this, dear reader is why I don't eat meat.

When CjD came to light, my elderly aunt who had spent many happy times on her grandparents' farm, said 'well, that's what you get when you feed cattle to cattle'. You don't need to be a scientist to recognise that there is potential risk when you feed protein to herbivores.

Fleurpepper

As said, not the place. Very complicated. Testing and passporting hav3 massive delays, and it is well known that cattle movements are not properly restricted.

You made it the place, and I can assure you that cattle movements are strictly controlled a missing ear tag has to be accounted for, which is why all animals have 2 tags. Animals unable to be identified cannot be moved.

Vaccination, many farmers see vaccination as a way forward, the Government has said not yet, one reason is that no export of livestock would then be possible, another is that vaccinated animals test positive for the TB test used.

There are trials being done, with a target date of 2025, we all hope they are successful, like all vaccines a high rate of immunity will be needed

What about the vaccination point, Katie59? Have you an objection to that, too?

As said, not the place. Very complicated. Testing and passporting hav3 massive delays, and it is well known that cattle movements are not properly restricted.