Junior doctors strike

As I am no longer living in London I read about the NHS problems and wonder why the people who write here to blame the Conservatives for everything wrong in this huge organisation which is one of the largest organisations in the world. Free at the point of treatment and often overused by people who visit A&E unnecessarily. Just how much money will be required to restore the Service to the standard which is demanded. I notice people do not consider that other countries have properly run health services. In Eire citizens pay a sum maybe €5_€10 euros to see their doctor, although with only a small population it may not be good comparison. Countries in Europe seem to run decent services.

I smile when I read Labour will come in and fix the service. Do any of the Labour supporters ever think that we have a risinf population and that we spent so much money on COVID that the till is running out of money. I look forward to having Labour in power in UK. They will be facing some very serious financial problems. Why can’t we have positive discussions about the NHS and how it can be improved. There are good doctors and very bad doctors and the same among nurses. They are humans and we cannot say they are all angels. Read about the political background of the man who is leading the “Junior” doctors strike. Volver says she cries because some of us have the temerity to disagree with the usual left wing rants on GRANSNET. There are a group of these posters who hate everything Conservative and think that we should pay more tax, especially successful companies. I am now close to 90 but I still pay tax of all sorts. I am happy to do so but I wish we did not have so many work shy people who do not want to work but prefer to remain unemployed. Our level of productivity is painfully low and now we have teachers strikes. Passport worker strikes, rail strikes doctors strikes etc Why is it that Labour supporters never think of costs and look back to the glory days of Tony Blair who used his cunning to fight wars. To open our borders to high immigration ( the immigrants will vote Labour) and to spend money on hospitals and schools which now are tied to spend with PFI contractors. These discussions on how we should spend money are avoided, but meanwhile it costs £7 million a day to house asylum seekers and immigrants. We do not have housing for them or for our own homeless. And so it goes on.

A very young close relation was rushed into hospital last night just before the strike began. They are not over the worst that is yet to come. I would love to know how any parent in that situation would feel. When there are people outside singing and dancing who could be helping?

The junior Doctors have my support
. eazybee the NHS do not have senior Doctors its Junior Doctor or consultant.
oreo i find you comment offensive.
Yes Dr makes mistakes like everyone else I have yet to meet a perfect person who has never made a mistake.
I wonder if the cabinet have ever visited a NHS hospital ,would love to see them do a full shift in an A and E department. The emotional strain Drs are under needs to be considered along with the anti social hours.
After years of training these Drs are left with huge student loans to be paid back. Also its the emotional strain they are under.

maddyone

You might find that the digging in the garden clothing is actually scrubs Primrose. My daughter (in fairness not a junior doctor now) has never worn normal clothing at work since Covid, it’s always scrubs.

I do know the difference thanks! One GP in our practice regularly comes to work in old jeans, filthy muddy trainers and an old scruffy shirt like he has come off the allotment.

And before anyone tries to defend such a slovenly appearance and say “but that doesn’t make him a bad doctor” he was only allowed to practice when supervised by another GP for about a year because a man died because he oversubscribed his medication by about 10 times the amount.

Oldbat1 - you say your neighbours 3 children are part time GPs. Full time General Practice is a killer! It is exhausting and draining. Men sometimes manage it because they have wives to support them. Most GPs need at least one day off in the week to catch up with sleep, home or paperwork. I was a part time GP for many years. I couldn't have survived full time

MaizieD

GPs and consultants are not junior doctors, Primrose53.

But they were once.

Recently saw a table of newly qualified docs earnings and at a starting salary of £20k plus overtime etc no wonder they feel badly done to. BUT they are definitely putting lives at risk by striking and people will die as a result of their actions.
If my DH was still alive I would be really frightened that he would not get the speedy treatment he might need and thousands of others must be in that situation right now.
It has to be down to the govt to sort this out and shame on them for letting this situation get so out of hand.

HousePlantQueen

ronib

Gps are required to take two years general training immediately after 5 year degree course and then undertake three years gp training. So two years in general training implies junior doctor status at that point and then trainee gp?

Thankfully so far husband is better and out of crisis and in annoying mode.

Glad your DH is starting to recover Siope, even if he is annoying you!

Sorry! . I meant Ronib

my daughter is a GP and says that 60% plus of daily patients do not need to be there

Really……60% plus!

Siope

HPG not my husband (although he has his annoying moments!)

Suite My husband! Such a relief not to have to take him to a&e today of all days!
A very anxious 3 days all in all.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

perhaps reduce the numbers of highly paid and not always very useful Hospital managers.

I know that the NHS is a highly emotive subject with strong views, and it is understandable we won’t agree.

However I think we lose credibility if we use unfounded myths as part of our argument.

For example:
The myth that the NHS has too many over paid managers has long been disproved, and in fact the NHS is under managed with only around 2% of managers. Fewer that other major organisations. (Binley Database of NHS Management)

This appalling Govt has to go.

They’ve planned this public sector disaster right across the piece:- Drs, nurses, fire service, teachers. Then, we have Tory ministers wanting £10k for a “consultation”!!!

I’m furious on behalf of our workers.

Easybee - such a swelling generalisation of dedicated hard working individuals, shame on you!

HPG not my husband (although he has his annoying moments!)

I think we all have to support this strike, and any others in public services for these strikes are not just about pay, they are about working conditions, about public services running on the goodwill of staff doing more and more beyond their expected role. If we want to have some sort of free at the point of use health service, we must stop these Tories from dismantling it, from forcing more and more of us into paying for what we need, assuming we are able to do so of course. I am not great fan of the man, but in 2019, Corbyn warned the electorate that this would happen......

The NHS is on it's knees and has been going that way since it was turned over to businesses instead of a NATIONAL Health Service. Far too much money is wasted on outsourcing and profit making which could have been spent through the years on giving doctors and nursed a decent wage commensurate with their skills.

ronib

Gps are required to take two years general training immediately after 5 year degree course and then undertake three years gp training. So two years in general training implies junior doctor status at that point and then trainee gp?

Thankfully so far husband is better and out of crisis and in annoying mode.

Glad your DH is starting to recover Siope, even if he is annoying you!

^ It is too easy to make it political - but where will any party find the money for free, increasingly expensive health care?^

A government can always find the money for what it wants to do, montymops.

The UK was broke after WW2 but still managed to fund the Welfare State and nationalise key industries. This didn't cause a decline, in fact it led to improved living standards and wages. It wasn't a party political 'thing' either, MacMillan's tory government managed to fund a big social housebuilding programme.

All the money spent into the NHS (and other public services) helps to grow the economy and to sustain private enterprises both large and small. Do not be thinking that state spending equals throwing money into a deep pit where it is never seen again. It is estimated that every £1 spent on the NHS generates £4 worth of economic activity.

As others have said on this thread, the government doesn't want to spend the money...

OTOH, the government seems quite comfortable with this:

Government’s annual reports and accounts estimate fraud against the taxpayer rose from £5.5 billion in total over the two years before the pandemic (2018‑19 and 2019-20) to £21 billion in total over the two years since the start of the pandemic (2020-21 and 2021-22)

According to this report from the National Audit Office

www.nao.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/tackling-fraud-and-corruption-against-government-summary.pdf

mabon1

Doctors swear "do not harm"

So would you rather they stopped being doctors? I imagine most could get into other, much better-paid careers with all the education and training they have been through.

Or would you suggest they take their skills to another country, where they would be appropriately paid?

Please tell me where the logic is in your comment.

I think the doctors' strike is shameful, calculated to cause the maximum disruption following four days closure of most medical facilities and to strike fear in the hearts of the most vulnerable.
I agree: do no harm.

volver3

Sometimes when I read posts on here I just want to cry.

Pay them what they're worth for goodness sake.

Me too Volver.

Doctors swear "do not harm"

I agree 100 per cent. 5hey are worth every penny.

Just a comment- my son is a senior consultant surgeon. The junior doctors are being paid the same now, as he was fifteen years ago. At that time, he also had free accommodation, food, rooms cleaned, fees paid etc - so he was in a much better position then than the doctors are now. Next week, he will be covering for the junior doctors and will try to do some urgent cancer operations as well - exhausting. After 20 years training, he gets paid the same as some train drivers. In order to pay the likes of Mick Lynch, train fares rise and we have to pay that. So how do we pay the doctors and consultants what they are worth? Perhaps reduce the numbers of highly paid and not always very useful, hospital managers. Perhaps we should have a charge for appointments and pay for food whilst in hospital- my daughter is a GP and says that 60% plus of daily patients do not need to be there. Somehow, our health care, needs to be paid for- maybe via a health tax? So much can be done now for us but at an enormous cost. It is too easy to make it political - but where will any party find the money for free, increasingly expensive health care?