Man’s inhumanity to ……..women?

IN Pakistan oops

Couldn't agree more.

I know, it’s very difficult to understand isn’t it? They make women the problem, but actually it’s men who are the problem because apparently they wouldn’t be able to control themselves if they saw a woman’s face, but if she shows her face, she’s dishonouring the family.

It’s total erosion of the person.
It’s reminded me of a series of photographs I saw a while back,
I’ll see if I can find it

This is it. It’s brilliant
www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/gallery/2013/may/17/pictures-of-week-mother-daughter-doll

Completely agree.
A dreadful example of women have no place in the eyes of men. 😡

Yes, agreed. Man the superior being, woman the lesser mortal.
Fanny The link is interesting, even showing that the hands must be covered in the last two photo's, so extreme.

Kalu

Completely agree.
A dreadful example of women have no place in the eyes of men. 😡

And little girls from a young age too.

It is dictated by men and culture, not by religion.

I wonder why western women consider that this is all the fault of men? Undoubtedly it is men who benefit the most, but the assumption that this is totally imposed on women by men is completely false. One of the most vigilant and violent imposers of the hijab in Iran has always been the women's Iranian Revolutionary Guard. FGM is usually perpetuated in families by the women. The question isn't how can we stop men from behaving badly towards women, it should be how can we break the cycle that leads some women to support such things and develop the belief that there should always be choice?

Well women often collude in misogyny it's the easier thing to do after all. Women see it as a protection. So when women minimise or excuse domestic violence,or blame women for what they wear for example, it's all a form of internalised misogyny.

I constantly ask myself, what on Earth are these men so frightened of? Their control of how women lead their lives, the clothing they should wear, their very liberty, suggests to me that they are terrified of women.

Galaxy this is beyond "colluding in misogyny" this is a deep rooted belief that women have certain standards, and that it is the duty of other women to ensure those standards are kept to. Misogyny implies that these women somehow hate other women when actually it is entirely the opposite. They care about other women, but their perception of what is good for women differs radically from ours.

But Galaxy, doesn’t fear also play a huge part? I agree with what you say, but I don’t think it’s the only reason.

We, as westerners are not in a position to change the traditions or religious beliefs of others. All we can do is offer support to those women brave enough in their attempt to break this cycle if that is their wish.
I have no facts to post but from what I have read and heard, it is men who do not allow their wives to leave their house unless they are covered from head to toe….rendering them invisible. To do otherwise leaves them open to danger and threats.

Galaxy

Well women often collude in misogyny it's the easier thing to do after all. Women see it as a protection. So when women minimise or excuse domestic violence,or blame women for what they wear for example, it's all a form of internalised misogyny.

I agree.

Women should wear what they want

That includes hijab and burqa

This idea that it is forced by men needs to stop. It's forced by men and women.

It is opposed by men and women

Neither are correct.

Women should get to wear what they want.

There were many men surporting the protest in Iran. It is not a men verses women thing it is power and control thing that some men and women are surporting and some men and women are objecting to.

Choicey choice feminism does nothing to unpick the structural issues that are in place. I agree that fear plays a part absolutely.

VioletSky

Women should wear what they want

That includes hijab and burqa

This idea that it is forced by men needs to stop. It's forced by men and women.

It is opposed by men and women

Neither are correct.

Women should get to wear what they want.

Yes, I used to lecture in a London college with a lot of Muslim students thirty years ago and can remember when one young woman, at 18, decided to start wearing a headscarf - not wear the veil which is much more extreme.
We talked about it and she told me that she had decided to do it simply because it was part of her religion. Her family (not ultra-religious) were very westernised and none of her female relatives wore a veil. Her parents were doctors and were surprised that she wanted to do it but did not object.
At this time the only women that were usually seen wearing veils were tourists shopping in Harrods, M&S or Selfridges but today it is very common.
I can appreciate that many women in Iran and other areas are forced to wear the veil, but you should bear in mind that more young women in Britain are choosing to do this today.

Fear of women as dangerous or unclean is a common thread in world religions. Look at the way nuns dress.

I steer well clear of religion - man-made and man-dominated.

I can understand women in Iran and Pakistan wearing burkas and hijabs etc because they have little protection against the men, and women who choose to impose it. We are told that it is not a religious requirement but a cultural one, and I cannot understand why women in Western countries persist in wearing such restrictive clothing.
Living in the south I see Asian families on the beach in very hot weather, the men and boys wearing jeans, shorts and T shirts, the women and girls in long-sleeved, long skirted dresses in heavy dark material, sometimes with ankle-length coats, all wearing thick dark tights and the women with their hair totally concealed. The families are young, clearly born here, so why do the women persist in imposing this dress code on their daughters while the men adopt western dress and freedoms?

I met some young women who wore the hijab at a "Reclaim the Streets" demonstration. They were adamant that wearing the hijab was their choice and no one else's. They gave a number of reasons for wearing it and said they had been shouted at and abused by people for wearing it.

I don't know. I've known young women who sometimes cover and sometimes don't. I asked one of them why, and she laughed and said that if she was having a bad hair day, or had nothing clean to wear she would cover up, and if she'd just been to the hairdressers and had a new dress she wouldn't. A bit like people wearing crosses or St Christopher jewellery for fashion rather than religion, I suppose? Equally, I know that that is by no means always the case.

I'm conflicted, as I don't support anything that restricts women's freedoms, yet believe in freedom of religion. If a woman doesn't want any man but her husband to see her hair, or the outline of her body, or if she has strict rules about menstruation or whatever, I think she should be able to live by them with as little hindrance as is possible; but also that if someone is trying to force those strictures on her she should have protection.

It seems like a number of religious oganisations, including Islam, treat women a s subservient to men.