Electoral Commission raises doubts over postal vote applications being handled legally by the Conservatives

Dickens, your post of 16:11 is depressing but true. I remember the threads on here when the matter of voter ID was raised; an awful lot of posters just couldn't see what the fuss was about, didn't care at all.

Bad things happen because good people do nothing.

Callistemon21

^Johnson changed it so that the Electoral Commission can't launch any investigations without the approval of the "appropriate" Secretary of State^.

How did that slip through unnoticed? Wasn't there a Parliamentary vote on it?
I thought it was still independent.

The reporting of this probably slipped through when some of the electorate were being whipped up into a frenzy by the latest shennanigans of Harry & Meghan or if all else fails, a quick report on another boat load of poor souls coming into a Kent beach. Simples.

MaizieD

Callistemon21

Johnson changed it so that the Electoral Commission can't launch any investigations without the approval of the "appropriate" Secretary of State.

How did that slip through unnoticed? Wasn't there a Parliamentary vote on it?
I thought it was still independent.

If there was a vote the tories won it because of their stonking majority of democracy destroyers.

Folks on my twitter time line were very vocal about it, as were some of the organisations I get regular emails from, but it seems that most voters are indifferent to, or ignorant of, how our parliamentary democracy should work and how institutions such as the Electoral Commission should be truly independent. Those voters just shrugged their shoulders and ignored it

I do know how it should work but I missed this, perhaps we were overseas.

varian

We have a virtual dictatorship by a party which most people voted against , but our corrupt undemocratic FPTP voting system gave them a huge majority. Party whips ensure their MPs toe the party line.

It doesn't matter that MPs have had to resign in disgrace. It doesn't matter that they have lost by-elections. It doesn't matter how unpopular they are. They still have the power to do what they like for another eighteen months.

They can basically do whatever they want and what they want is what they think is likely to result in them retaining power.

What a travesty of democracy !

It could only happen in the UK or Belarus. No other European countries uses FPTP.

This current mob in government know their fan-base. They know also they've lost some support from the more traditional Conservative voter - goodness, I meet enough of them locally, they're completely disillusioned.

But there's a 'fellowship' of what I call "hard-nosed" right-wing supporters - and frequently men in the 40-50 age group - and they are active on social media. They are often misogynistic, think anyone who uses a food-bank or is poor is simply a "loser" who just needs to get an extra job or two and have their benefits stopped completely; believes all asylum seekers are bogus and just here for the benefits, taking advantage of our "soft" system; insists public sector workers are "namby-pambies" who don't know what a "proper" job is; are certain that the only "true Brit" is one who can trace their ancestry within a couple of hundred years within the British Isles and - if you take a peek at their Facebook profile, they often sport endless photo's of their favourite football team, large fish being held aloft. high-powered cars and appeals to raise money for ex servicemen - they not infrequently attended the University-Of-Life and were educated at the School-of-Hard-Knocks... I've seen it so many times.
And if you dare present them with some facts or statistics to counter some observation they've made, they become personally abusive and tell you you're deluded and need to get-a-life. If you tell them that the Electoral Commission has lost its independence - they will sneeringly inform you that it was "full of lefties" anyway so good riddance.
It sounds OTT but I'm not exaggerating. Many of them are clamouring for the return of Boris Johnson, who will "sort this country out" and make it "great" again.

And Johnson and others know these are their supporters - they've given up attempting to woo the more balanced, traditional Tory voter (like many on GN) - these individuals have helped to give them their majority, and that is why IMO there are frequent dog-whistle calls to their bigotry. Although I have to say things started to improve somewhat after Sunak became PM (but only to a degree) - however, Sunak is not their man - they want 'kick-ass' Boris back.

We have a virtual dictatorship by a party which most people voted against , but our corrupt undemocratic FPTP voting system gave them a huge majority. Party whips ensure their MPs toe the party line.

It doesn't matter that MPs have had to resign in disgrace. It doesn't matter that they have lost by-elections. It doesn't matter how unpopular they are. They still have the power to do what they like for another eighteen months.

They can basically do whatever they want and what they want is what they think is likely to result in them retaining power.

What a travesty of democracy !

It could only happen in the UK or Belarus. No other European countries uses FPTP.

Callistemon21

^Johnson changed it so that the Electoral Commission can't launch any investigations without the approval of the "appropriate" Secretary of State^.

How did that slip through unnoticed? Wasn't there a Parliamentary vote on it?
I thought it was still independent.

If there was a vote the tories won it because of their stonking majority of democracy destroyers.

Folks on my twitter time line were very vocal about it, as were some of the organisations I get regular emails from, but it seems that most voters are indifferent to, or ignorant of, how our parliamentary democracy should work and how institutions such as the Electoral Commission should be truly independent. Those voters just shrugged their shoulders and ignored it

Callistemon21

^Johnson changed it so that the Electoral Commission can't launch any investigations without the approval of the "appropriate" Secretary of State^.

How did that slip through unnoticed? Wasn't there a Parliamentary vote on it?
I thought it was still independent.

I think it was reported in The Independent and a couple of other media.

The tabloids as far as I am aware didn't make any fuss about it - there were more important issues, like the latest celebrity boob-job, or something.

Johnson changed it so that the Electoral Commission can't launch any investigations without the approval of the "appropriate" Secretary of State.

How did that slip through unnoticed? Wasn't there a Parliamentary vote on it?
I thought it was still independent.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DaisyAnne

The misreading of the OP and the misunderstanding about why this matters is really troubling. Our democracy needs constant vigilance to maintain it. It seems some people just don't care.

You are right.

The misreading of the OP and the misunderstanding about why this matters is really troubling. Our democracy needs constant vigilance to maintain it. It seems some people just don't care.

winterwhite

Postal ballots surely don't require stamps anyway?? 🥺🥺

It's not a postal ballot, it is an application for a postal vote

So yes, it probably needs a stamp.

Postal ballots surely don't require stamps anyway?? 🥺🥺

DaisyAnne

Oreo

Saves a quid on the stamp so not all bad.
May encourage people to register to vote.

But, other than putting your trust in your Tory local office and those who have volunteered their services to campaign on their behalf, you have no reason to believe your form will be sent on. Why not, for the cost of a stamp, send it direct thus knowing it will be in the right place by the right time.

I’d assumed that those people using it would either be already
Conservative voters or those thinking of voting for them.
Labour should do the same, might get more votes that way.

LadyHonoriaDedlock

I'd need more evidence before I suggested anything untoward was going on. Political parties love postal votes because they can know in advance of polling day who has voted (but not how they voted) and which ones are "theirs" (if they have canvassed effectively and things aren't seriously awry in the polls). When party representatives are invited to observe the checking of the postal ballots they can sample to get an idea of the likely outcome, but the papers will be counted along with all the other votes.

As this is not the way it has been done for all the years we have had postal voting, I would want more evidence of oversight before I sent all my details to any Party office.

Obviously that would apply to any Party office. It just that the only ones with this odd scheme are the Conservatives.

Oreo

Saves a quid on the stamp so not all bad.
May encourage people to register to vote.

But, other than putting your trust in your Tory local office and those who have volunteered their services to campaign on their behalf, you have no reason to believe your form will be sent on. Why not, for the cost of a stamp, send it direct thus knowing it will be in the right place by the right time.

I must admit that I'm uncertain what is going on here. That said I distrust anything that connects any political party with the voting process. It also seems to me that introducing any other factor into the process of obtaining a postal vote necessarily means that there is a greater possibility of something going wrong and you losing your vote. Letters can get lost, or be delayed. It is something that needs investigating properly and monitoring. If any of those replying through the Conservative office lose their vote for any reason the process should be stopped and banned.

I'd need more evidence before I suggested anything untoward was going on. Political parties love postal votes because they can know in advance of polling day who has voted (but not how they voted) and which ones are "theirs" (if they have canvassed effectively and things aren't seriously awry in the polls). When party representatives are invited to observe the checking of the postal ballots they can sample to get an idea of the likely outcome, but the papers will be counted along with all the other votes.

Saves a quid on the stamp so not all bad.
May encourage people to register to vote.

GrannyRose you cannot apply to a Political Party for a postal vote. You may only apply to your Local Council Registration Officer. So why would a political party ask for the forms to come to their office first, only to have to send them on?

The only place you can apply for a postal vote is your local Council. Such paperwork has to be kept at arm's length from the Parties. They have no business with your vote or any one's application for a postal vote.

But as I have indicated I don’t think any party should be encouraging people to apply for postal votes as they don’t offer the same level of privacy as voting in person. Incidentally one of my Labour councillors is encouraging people to go for a postal vote because it’s easier as “you don’t need ID when voting by post”. Makes you think doesn’t it?

Callistemon21

As I understand it, these are not voting forms, GrannyRose, as it would be illegal for them to go to a local political party office, but these are application forms for postal voting.

In that case it is perfectly acceptable. Presumably only those with a Tory leaning will apply to them for a postal vote. Others can apply elsewhere.

Caleo, you are right. This is not about voting. That would be so wrong.

I think they can send the forms legally whether or not the local Council provides a stamped addressed envelope GrannyRose. As I said, encouraging more people to vote is a good thing to do.

However, if they were only trying to encourage more postal voters, and they thought prepaid envelopes help - as they may well do - they could have addressed them to the Council. Why address them to the Party Offices and put another step in the process? They still have to be sent to the Council. You could be losing precious days.

I don't think the office of any one Party is more likely to do anything wrong than the office of another Party when in power. I'm afraid they are just as likely to get a rogue person in one party as another unless they are scrupulously careful. As you say, they should be seen as above suspicion, especially when they have taken control of what was the independent means of scrutiny.

I don't despise the Tories. I despise some Tories, and I despise Tory morality. There are some genuinely nice people who are Tories despite official Tory morality.

Thanks for the heads-up about postal voting!