After all these years of Tory government, does anything in the UK still work?

GrannyRose15

Is this all the fault of the Tories I wonder. Or might New Labour have sowed the seeds of destruction. Remember we haven’t had a properly Conservative government since 1997. Perhaps it’s time to try one.

You have to laugh sometimes. The Tories have been in power for 13 years. How long do you think they need in power to make things better rather than worse than they were in 2010?

If it’s not your sort of government, which Tory voters are you going to blame for that, because after 13 years it clearly isn’t a Labour issue?

MaizieD

I'm not sure that the environment is too protected when we have our rivers and seas awash with sewage.

Which bit of the environment do you have in mind, fancythat?

Does industrial relations being no worse than in the 1970s make it a Good Thing? Lots of people were pretty worried about it in the '70s.

environment - i could go on and on, but that is not my style.
I agree about rivers and seas and sewage needing much more work.

I will do a volver and say "where did I say that industrial relations being no worse was a good thing"!

Casdon would it surprise you to know that not all Tory voters are happy with the government at the moment. Or the party for that matter. It does not mean that we support Labour though. A lot of Conservative values have been jettisoned over the last few years. Some people think there should be a real choice between conservatism and socialism. Not what we have at the moment which is get the same lousy policies whoever the country votes for.

GrannyRose15

Casdon would it surprise you to know that not all Tory voters are happy with the government at the moment. Or the party for that matter. It does not mean that we support Labour though. A lot of Conservative values have been jettisoned over the last few years. Some people think there should be a real choice between conservatism and socialism. Not what we have at the moment which is get the same lousy policies whoever the country votes for.

No, it doesn’t surprise me at all that many Tory voters are disillusioned. What does gall me though is when some Tory voters openly blame a party which hasn’t been in power for 13 years for the current ills. The current mess sits squarely on successive Tory government shoulders.

environment - i could go on and on, but that is not my style.

Oh well, if you're not prepared to explain your comment I'm happy to consider it to be irrelevant...

I will do a volver and say "where did I say that industrial relations being no worse was a good thing"!

Why did you bother to mention it, then, fancythat? It hardly says that there is nothing wrong with the UK at the moment. Industrial relations were bad then and are bad now.

Juliet27

State of our road surfaces
Litter clearance

Down to local Council. Our area, Conservative, refuse collection , plus recycling, excellent service. Roads being mended as we speak. I thank them.

GrannyRose15:
Casdon would it surprise you to know that not all Tory voters are happy with the government at the moment. Or the party for that matter. It does not mean that we support Labour though.

You voted for them when it was as clear a day that the far-right had hold of the party. You may not want to vote Labour, but that doesn't excuse a vote for the clowns and those who are both to the very far right economically and culturally. If you are not far-right yourself, do not vote for them. If, despite knowing who they are and what they will do to the majority in this county, you do vote for them, please do not expect either sympathy or understanding.

I neither support the Labour Party nor the Conservative Party or. for that matter, any other party. When I vote is look at the policies they will drive forward. Blind faith in what you think a party stands for is no excuse for accepting what they are doing in your name. The Conservative Party hasn't changed, although Sunak has put on a more acceptable face on them. Sadly his economics will worsen the lives of many more than it improves. He is already lifting the rules guiding the banks which, if they crash and are now unprotected by the cover they have in such an event, will always effect the worse off most.

If knowing what they intend, you still vote Conservative, you only have yourself to blame for people's attitude to your personal political stance.

But the far right is not in control of the party. That’s my point. There is very little to choose between the two main parties. I think that you and I actually agree about the need for change. We probably disagree as to the direction that change should take.

And just out of interest. How long does anyone think it will it take a new government to put everything right? 5 years? 10 years? What do you think?

You do not have to be a Labour supporter to not wish to vote Tory. Tactical voting as is relevant to each constituency is the way to go. We have to have a government that has at least a vague idea of what integrity means - this government is not it, so we have to look elsewhere, wherever that might be.

The more I read left wing threads like this, the more I am put off voting Labour again.
Even when I lean towards doing so sometimes.

Unless you are a full on, hard left, and nothing is wrong with Labour ever ever type person, nothing else is anywhere near good enough.

Well I wont be that, so I need to walk away.

And even that post will get pounced on, disected, and pedanted!

GrannyRose15

But the far right is not in control of the party. That’s my point. There is very little to choose between the two main parties. I think that you and I actually agree about the need for change. We probably disagree as to the direction that change should take.

GrannyRose your posts are contradictory. Upthread you said that we haven't had a properly Consevative government since 1997. So I assume you think Major's government was Conservative. The Conservative Party has moved far to the right from what they were then, but you think the far right aren't in charge.

Do you think we need to move even further right? Do you really think Labour and the tories are the same, when the tories have no time for our NHS, demonise the "other", treat us like cattle?

Do you think UKIP have just about got it right?

fancythat

The more I read left wing threads like this, the more I am put off voting Labour again.
Even when I lean towards doing so sometimes.

Unless you are a full on, hard left, and nothing is wrong with Labour ever ever type person, nothing else is anywhere near good enough.

Well I wont be that, so I need to walk away.

I don't vote Labour, never have.

Any thoughts about that?

In the last hundred or so years Conservatives have been in power about 75% of that time. So it’s not just about the last decade of Tory rule.

What about the effects on the economy of the pandemic immediately followed by involvement with Russia and Ukraine?

Would have happened if Labour had been in charge? Economic consequences of both events still ongoing.

fancythat

The more I read left wing threads like this, the more I am put off voting Labour again.
Even when I lean towards doing so sometimes.

Unless you are a full on, hard left, and nothing is wrong with Labour ever ever type person, nothing else is anywhere near good enough.

Well I wont be that, so I need to walk away.

I can tell that you don’t follow the political threads fancythat, because if you did you’d know that posters on this thread are not ‘far left’ at all. What we virtually all are is disillusioned though, after seeing our country go down the tubes. Anything has to be better than the last 13 years, even if you aren’t a Labour supporter.

We have the highest taxes for 70 years. This government has put more money into the NHS than any other in history. How are these far right policies?

Things that still work:

- tax havens in British territories
- non-dom status for rich residents
- lobbying

- the black economy

Even worse if the types of threads/posters on GN are not even far left ones!

No I wont be drawn into further discussion on this thread.

In answer to the OP - no!

GrannyRose15

We have the highest taxes for 70 years. This government has put more money into the NHS than any other in history. How are these far right policies?

Are you seriously saying that you think the current government are not right wing?

Then all is lost.

GrannyRose15

We have the highest taxes for 70 years. This government has put more money into the NHS than any other in history. How are these far right policies?

We have high taxes because the government is being run by a party that is perpetrating the myth that taxation spends funding. Which is just not true.

But we do notice that the burden of this taxation falls on those who are least able to afford it; people who would actually help the economy by spending their money in it if it wasn't being taken from them by the government. While the wealthiest members of our society are more lightly taxed, have ways of avoiding tax which aren't available to most, and have, in some cases, been handed extra income, bankers' bonuses, raising the cap on pension pots, which they will not be spending into the national economy because they don't need to. This has been proven over and over by economists, wealth doesn't 'trickle down' because it is mostly used to create more wealth for its owners, not to purchase more goods and services. I am not posting the opinion of a lefty, I'm telling you what research evidence shows.

As to the government putting more into the NHS than any other in history, how does that work when the tories have been cutting NHS funding in real terms ever since 2010 and the service has dropped from being one of the top ranked in the world in 2010, is short of thousands of key staff (like doctors and nurses) and is on its knees and falling apart at the seams?

The trouble is …..when ever a Labour government are in power, they manage to make everything 10 times worse!

This Labour opposition has no clear agenda - just always moaning about the Tories.