Apparently it is our fault that the economy is such rubbish because we can’t add up

'He - and the rest of the politicians - should just butt out.'

Does this poster not think M Sunak might be looking at this as a parent with two young daughters setting out on this path. As a parent he is good to stand up for what the rest of us thinks.

However in the '60s in an all girls school with no male staff, maths teachers were hard to come by.

I'm still finding this statement a bit startling with its implication that only men can teach maths!

growstuff

Foxygloves What 75% final salary pensions? People who think that's what public service workers receive are living on another planet - there' probably no hope for them.

www.spectator.co.uk/article/pity-the-doctors-fighting-for-their-1m-pensions/

You might like to read this

I would say literacy before numeracy. If you can't read you don't know what the question is, the rules to using a computer programme or where you are going with road signs never mind how long it takes to get there.
How long have they been trying to get literacy sorted out? Since I started teaching in the early seventies. It's like the Hokey Cokey, phonics in phonics out, whole word flashcards and you turn it all about.
If you can't read how do you know where to switch the computer on by osmosis?

Philippa111

We are not all made the same Mr Sunak!

Not everyone has a brain for Maths and not everyone needs to have! I know I didn't. I'm what is described as a 'high creative' and our brains work differently.

Creatives are the artists, poets, music composers, writers , film makers, wild life photographers etc.Unfortunately, in our culture, this group of equally skilled people are seen as less important than bankers, financiers, accountants, scientists etc.

Sorry, I disagree. I'm not talking about understanding calculus, but I think everybody has the capacity to do basic maths, apart from a handful with genuine dyscalculia. If they don't they can't participate in anything beyond a superficial understanding of the world around them.

Chardy

GrannyGravy13

Do any of you think that the elephant in the room regarding maths and most teaching at secondary level is the breakdown of discipline in the classrooms.

My AC were respectful of their teachers and a tad afraid of some.

My GC whilst respectful are of a generation where their teachers are trying to be friends with their pupils. Great on some levels but how do you discipline a class full of friends.

I am not advocating a return of the cane/ruler or the thrown blackberries rubber, but exclusion and isolation in my opinion do not appear to be useful tools.

'The breakdown of discipline in the classrooms' in secondary schools - are these comments based on anything other than friends and family anecdotes?

I am able to read and listen to the news.

We have friends who are teachers, and head teachers.

A poster I shall not name and who in fact may no longer be posting , when asked who she thought would pay for the billions handed out in furlough payments, (apparently seriously) suggested the government could simply print more money.
Look where that got Germany in the 30’s.

Hi Foxygloves. I'm still here, as you would know if you came on this forum more often, and would be happy to debate your points with backing from the work of economists and historians. I've put in a lot of intellectual effort over the past few years, reading and critical appraisal, into establishing the truth of what I say about national economies. And I'm very argumentative...

Chardy

GrannyGravy13

Do any of you think that the elephant in the room regarding maths and most teaching at secondary level is the breakdown of discipline in the classrooms.

My AC were respectful of their teachers and a tad afraid of some.

My GC whilst respectful are of a generation where their teachers are trying to be friends with their pupils. Great on some levels but how do you discipline a class full of friends.

I am not advocating a return of the cane/ruler or the thrown blackberries rubber, but exclusion and isolation in my opinion do not appear to be useful tools.

'The breakdown of discipline in the classrooms' in secondary schools - are these comments based on anything other than friends and family anecdotes?

In my case I was a secondary school teacher for years.

We are not all made the same Mr Sunak!

Not everyone has a brain for Maths and not everyone needs to have! I know I didn't. I'm what is described as a 'high creative' and our brains work differently.

Creatives are the artists, poets, music composers, writers , film makers, wild life photographers etc.Unfortunately, in our culture, this group of equally skilled people are seen as less important than bankers, financiers, accountants, scientists etc.

GrannyGravy13

Do any of you think that the elephant in the room regarding maths and most teaching at secondary level is the breakdown of discipline in the classrooms.

My AC were respectful of their teachers and a tad afraid of some.

My GC whilst respectful are of a generation where their teachers are trying to be friends with their pupils. Great on some levels but how do you discipline a class full of friends.

I am not advocating a return of the cane/ruler or the thrown blackberries rubber, but exclusion and isolation in my opinion do not appear to be useful tools.

'The breakdown of discipline in the classrooms' in secondary schools - are these comments based on anything other than friends and family anecdotes?

Chardy

According to breakfast TV, nearly half of secondary schools have some maths lessons taken by non-maths teachers (NFER data 2022), and about 10% of secondary maths lessons are taken by non-specialists.

That sounds about right.

Students studying IB in the sixth form have to do maths. They can opt to do "Mathematics: Applications and Interpretations", which is less theoretical than A level. Maybe Sunak has been looking at it (or, more likely, his advisors).

According to breakfast TV, nearly half of secondary schools have some maths lessons taken by non-maths teachers (NFER data 2022), and about 10% of secondary maths lessons are taken by non-specialists.

annodomini

PS It would be useful if the proposed compulsory maths to age 18 gave these teenagers a grasp of Statistics. This can be taken as a separate exam from Maths. DGD2 took and passed it in Y10 and I think my youngest DGS is currently doing the same.

I’d like some of the budgeting skills we’ve all learned the hard way to be a priority for the 16-18 year olds as well. It’s the everyday application that needs to be prioritised, because I don’t think a lot of children see the connection between what they learn at school and their future independent lives.

He - and the rest of the politicians - should just butt out.

Their job is to properly fund and organise education systems and let the professionals get on with their jobs.

Government interference has got the education system where it is, which is not where we might wish it to be.

I remember in Sixth Form General Studies, we were given copies of newspaper articles - chosen because they contained lots of graphs, charts and figures. We had to summarise what the maths was actually telling us and whether the graphs and charts actually supported the text.

We also did lots of tasks involving averages and percentages. I remember we had to work out the ingredients for a 10 inch cake, if the recipe was for a 6 inch cake etc. and how many extra paving slabs would be needed if a patio were to be extended by 5 metres in each direction - and how to work out a quick formula.

PS It would be useful if the proposed compulsory maths to age 18 gave these teenagers a grasp of Statistics. This can be taken as a separate exam from Maths. DGD2 took and passed it in Y10 and I think my youngest DGS is currently doing the same.

60-odd years ago, we had to do an arithmetic paper (quite separate from Maths) to get our Scottish Leaving Certificate. No calculators in those days, of course. I hated having to do mental arithmetic in primary school, but am grateful even now for the discipline and can often do the sums on Countdown better than many of the contestants.

Baggs

growstuff

Maths to 18 doesn't have to be about "geometry, algebra or logarithms".

Also agreed and I wonder if what Sunak actually means is arithmetic, which is only one part of maths.

I'm not sure what he means. I wonder if he knows himself what he means.

TerriBull Part of the problem is that maths isn't always taught by maths specialists. I've taught maths GCSE and I'm a trained languages teacher. There just aren't enough applicants for the jobs. Schools are so relieved if anybody applies that they appoint in desperation.

I worked at one school where we were advertising for a maths teacher at the same time as a computer network manager. We had over a 100 applicants for the computer job and not one for the maths job.

So now I can't help remembering John Major and his back to basics – reading (w)riting, and rithmetic.

Doesn't seem to have worked. Or maybe it worked for a bit and then.....

growstuff

Maths to 18 doesn't have to be about "geometry, algebra or logarithms".

Also agreed and I wonder if what Sunak actually means is arithmetic, which is only one part of maths.

growstuff

GG13 Yes, I do. However, I don't think it's just a question of teachers trying to be friends. It's more complicated than that.

Agreed.

Maths to 18 doesn't have to be about "geometry, algebra or logarithms".

GG13 Yes, I do. However, I don't think it's just a question of teachers trying to be friends. It's more complicated than that.