Identifying as a different gender

volver3

Elegran

If someone has actually observed and can give chapter and verse that in that ward all the nurses of one ethnicity displayed the same antisocial characteristics in how they interacted with patients and with other ethnicities, then they are justified in lumping them all together when complaining about them. It it the behaviour that is objected to, not the ethnicity.

If it is impossible to complain about someone's (or several people's) behaviour because of their colour, nationality or ethnicity, then it can easily become a kind of reverse racism - similar to the attitude that was expected in the US in past years, when people stood back to let others go first just because they were white and others were not.

Sorry Elegran I disagree.

If you (general, not you particularly) lump everyone of a particular nationality together and say that they have all the same characteristics, then you are being racist.

You can say that you have observed that a particular group of named people are behaving in a way that you do not think is acceptable, but you can't say its because they are all foreigners from the same country.

There is no such thing as "reverse racism" There is only racism. The more I think about it, thinking that there is such a thing as "reverse racism" is probably racist...

What I understood from Esmay's post was that all the nurses of that race/ethnicity who were on duty at that time and in that hospital were acting in the same way. That is not the same as condemning a whole race for the behaviour of one subset of them. What these nurses had in common was their ethnicity, and that would identify them to any superiors who wished to ask them to change their behaviour. Had they all been blondes or all left-handed, that would have identified them.

However it sometimes seems that to legitimately criticise one non-white person for their behaviour can trigger accusations that they are only being picked because of their colour, when that may have nothing to do with it.

I haven’t RTWT so I don’t know all that has gone on.
So because one child who chose to go to an all girl’s school, is allowed to dictate how all the other pupils are addressed?
Watching the jumping in to propose changing accurate vocabulary -girls- for the pupils in this school, to suit one person who is still a girl.
The next step will be other pupils being punished for using the wrong pronoun for this person who, is presumably wearing the same uniform as all the other girls-shirt/skirt/trousers.
Or maybe the “no wearing badges or pins” rule will be changed to accommodate the girl wearing a “my pronoun is he” badge, or even compelling all the other pupils to wear pronoun badges.
Interesting.
I have this strong feeling of déjà vu.

Caleo

We don't have enough information. A teacher should address pupils without referring to their sex or their gender whether or not it's a one-sex school. The sex and the gender of learners is irrelevant to understanding Euclid, the Tang dynasty, or Wordsworth.

"Good morning students" "Good morning pupils" "Good morning children" "Good morning people" "Good morning friends" "Good morning you horrible lot" are sex and gender neutral.

When I was at school our Head (master) used to welcome us to Assembly with “Good morning School”.

But they arent a boy, and the advice now for those pre puberty is against social affirmation. Obviously anyone can chose to leave a school for any reason. They may be more comfortable at a co ed school I have no idea but the school should not be enforcing a move.

Galaxy

Yes we need to be clear about the difference between sex and gender. This students sex is female.

But if they want to identify as a boy then perhaps a co-ed school might be a better choice.

Yes we need to be clear about the difference between sex and gender. This students sex is female.

We need to be careful of assuming a child aught to leave if they 'identify' as the other gender. They are still legally and have the physical serial attributes of, the 'gender' they were born with
If it is a boy 'identifying' as a girl, should they be made to leave and potentially then join a girls school, but still retain the physical sexual characteristics of a boy? If I had a daughter in a girls school, I'd rather not be faced with that situation.
Let's not forget that gender is what you think you are, it's not what you actually are. Your sex is what you are. Unless of course you actually change it.
(A bit like me 'identifying' as a supermodel, but knowing I'm not actually one!)

Absolutely agree, Icansendthemback. Children play at various roles and learn from their play.

I agree, Nantoone.

There is no need to tolerate unkindness from children. When children are being unkind they should be shown how appreciate what others, who in this case is a teacher, are doing for them.
Children also need to learn respect for seniors.
I hope the school authorities are addressing this problem of bullying by children.

Blondiescot

When it comes to 'woke' being used as an insult, I'm firmly with Kathy Burke: "“They’re calling you ‘woke’ if you call out bad things, basically. If you’re not racist, you’re woke. If you’re not homophobic, oh, you’re woke. Be woke, kids. Be woke. Be wide awake and f***ing call it out.”

Love her

Can't somebody identify as a girl one day and a boy another? Or maybe go through a time of feeling like they identify as one gender and then change their mind? However, if a girl at an all girls school has a wobble about their gender, loads of you wish to send that person packing. Is this the same people who think if you are born a girl, you are a girl and that's it? Isn't there an irony there?

When it comes to 'woke' being used as an insult, I'm firmly with Kathy Burke: "“They’re calling you ‘woke’ if you call out bad things, basically. If you’re not racist, you’re woke. If you’re not homophobic, oh, you’re woke. Be woke, kids. Be woke. Be wide awake and f***ing call it out.”

Enoch Burke ignored a court injunction and went to a school which had banned him from attending while he was subject to a disciplinary process.

I am very willing to address any person by their preferred pronouns providing they

(a) let me know what these pronouns are and try to stick to them

(b) refer to me as "Vintagenonna, ruler of the known Universe and fount from whom all reason, understanding, logic, information and home made jam flows."

In Ireland we have the case of Enoch Burke, who has spent months in jail as a result of this kind of issue. His brother also. To me if you have Y DNA you're male, otherwise female. Beyond that, I would have tackled it all differently, but that's no doubt easy to say. With him, it's down to his religious beliefs, and his rights imo have been ignored. None of this is going away, and some sane people will have to sort it. Majority Ireland is now so anti-clerical and anti-religion that sanity does not prevail. 'Woke' is everything here now.

Elegran

volver3

It's an expensive boarding school now, is it?

No conclusion unjumped...

It apparently costs £20,000 a year.My conclusion too is that that is expensive. As for being a boarding school - for that amount I think most parents would expect boarding as well as tuition.

The private school in Dundee, Dundee High, costs £14,000 a year. That's not residential. Fettes is £30,000, non residential.

"Expensive" is in the eye of the beholder...

Elegran

volver3

It's an expensive boarding school now, is it?

No conclusion unjumped...

It apparently costs £20,000 a year.My conclusion too is that that is expensive. As for being a boarding school - for that amount I think most parents would expect boarding as well as tuition.

Prices have risen.
That would be n the low side now, I think.

Reverse racism doesn't exist, racism is the oppression of an entire race, you can only be prejudiced against those who haven't faced oppression.

People who think they are experiencing reverse racism usually can't grasp that it is only them as an individual that is disliked

Elegran

If someone has actually observed and can give chapter and verse that in that ward all the nurses of one ethnicity displayed the same antisocial characteristics in how they interacted with patients and with other ethnicities, then they are justified in lumping them all together when complaining about them. It it the behaviour that is objected to, not the ethnicity.

If it is impossible to complain about someone's (or several people's) behaviour because of their colour, nationality or ethnicity, then it can easily become a kind of reverse racism - similar to the attitude that was expected in the US in past years, when people stood back to let others go first just because they were white and others were not.

Sorry Elegran I disagree.

If you (general, not you particularly) lump everyone of a particular nationality together and say that they have all the same characteristics, then you are being racist.

You can say that you have observed that a particular group of named people are behaving in a way that you do not think is acceptable, but you can't say its because they are all foreigners from the same country.

There is no such thing as "reverse racism" There is only racism. The more I think about it, thinking that there is such a thing as "reverse racism" is probably racist...

volver3

It's an expensive boarding school now, is it?

No conclusion unjumped...

It apparently costs £20,000 a year.My conclusion too is that that is expensive. As for being a boarding school - for that amount I think most parents would expect boarding as well as tuition.

Callistemon21

Has it been reported that the teacher was sacked?

The teacher was on a short term contract (possibly supply?), which wasn't renewed.

My child is a teacher at senior school (state). She has five classes a day to teach with more than 30 students in each class. 150 at least per day, sometimes in the week she sees them more than once. It takes time to get to know them and their foibles. Frankly, after Covid her school is much more worried about them catching up lost education and returning once decent behaviour to its norm. This sort of nonsense makes children too powerful and gives them ideas. All parties in this have acted in an irresponsible manner in my opinion. Give the students the idea that they can get one over on you and they certainly will. Students often try to intimate my adult child (good luck with that), heads need to support staff and everyone needs to sort themselves out and stop being ridiculous. I notice the smaller children in my local school (no further details put here) have started to gang up on a particular teacher (who is standing in for another teacher). They are constantly gossiping about her and saying she should be sacked. These children are 8. Why? She’s a big lady and quite loud. Parents have a duty to stop this in its tracks, what message are we giving to our young these days?

So the teacher wasn't sacked

It's easy to say "good morning all"

It's easy to let children have a tiny bit of space to establish their authentic selves

Adults in schools have been dealing with all sorts of transition phases for years and should just seek solace in their training when needed because children don't just wake up one morning at the point of puberty or adulthood sure of their identity in life

No problem really, just a little thought and it's all solved

If someone has actually observed and can give chapter and verse that in that ward all the nurses of one ethnicity displayed the same antisocial characteristics in how they interacted with patients and with other ethnicities, then they are justified in lumping them all together when complaining about them. It it the behaviour that is objected to, not the ethnicity.

If it is impossible to complain about someone's (or several people's) behaviour because of their colour, nationality or ethnicity, then it can easily become a kind of reverse racism - similar to the attitude that was expected in the US in past years, when people stood back to let others go first just because they were white and others were not.

3nanny6

Katie59 : no it was not a physical threat for the girl to be identifying as a different gender and you could be correct that this was some sort of prank but it got out of hand. The result being that the teacher was then reprimanded by the head of the school and completely humiliated by having to apologize to the children for her use of the word "girls".
The head-teacher handled this very badly and has given the school bad publicity. The fees must be high for this boarding school and it has had it's name dragged down to the old type school St. Trinians which was far less posh than the parents who chose to send their children there thought.

It simply wouldn’t faze me, I would simply apologize for being non PC in assembly and commit to calling everyone pupils in future

As for parents I would expect most of them would see it for the nonsense it is, St Trinians is a good comparison