Identifying as a different gender

There is nothing humiliating about apologising no matter who is present. If you are wrong you should say so. Children appreciate honesty and show more respect to teachers who are honest. I have often apologised to children.

And head teachers are in classrooms assessing teachers and monitoring their work all the time. It's a normal part of school life and not humiliating, unusual or personal.

It is so funny that the only way people can justify their views is by telling me how I have misunderstood them or how I create hypothetical cases. The concept of private education which has a differing ethos to state education isn't hypothetical it is fact

Rosie51 and Smileless2012 Nowhere in my posts do I say or indicate that children might lie. I did say that the children might report that they were not satisfied with the apology and didn't think it was genuine. That is not lying.
The fact that you think children would have to lie shows more about your attitude to children than anything. It isn't something which entered my head.
An apology would be appreciated.

All I have gathered from this thread is that people either have little knowledge about alternative education or find it so difficult to understand that they can't even imagine how it works.

doodledog I eas answering your reply to me but you have now amended it so it no longer matters

I'm bored of the mind games for now

But as I always say, this is why the GC won't win

Catch you next thread, maybe things will change

I always hope so

Had I been the teacher I'd certainly have viewed the presence of the head as undermining my position in the school Doodledog which is why I wouldn't have agreed to it.

Cool doodledog keep your double standards

Can you please show me where I have double standards?

My question to you was hypothetical. That was obvious. My last post posed other hypothetical questions, which I think are interesting, but I'm not pretending are what happened, which is what Glorianny was doing. How is that double standards? Serious question.

Cool doodledog keep your double standards

Mollygo wee I'm going to carry on bring polite so...

So "if" is the standard for hypothetical questions... I'm sure there have been plenty of ifs

Discussion or point scoring?

Up to you guys

I'm not keeping count

Doodledog

VioletSky

Can we just get on board with not having double standards please

I'd rather not, but you crack on.

. I meant that I'd rather not get on board with double standards, in case that's not clear

I agree, Rosie. As a union rep I saw cases where that sort of undermining of staff was treated as evidence of bullying and taken very seriously.

If we are being hypothetical, what might have worked better could have been for the teacher to be given the chance to explain firstly whether she had even known about the non-binary child, and if she had known, but had chosen not to choose a different word from 'girls' why she did so. The children need to learn that people disagree, and just because they hold a point of view doesn't entitle them to force everyone else to comply. It could have been done politely and reasonably, if each 'side' had been willing to listen to the other.

Also hypothetically, what about a girl in the class who doesn't believe in 'gender'? In Glorianny's fictional world where the school ethos dictates what can be said, would she be allowed to express an opinion? Would she dare to speak out even if it were allowed, given that teachers were forced into humiliating apologies?

I'm sure we could all invent scenarios that will lead nowhere, as they are not real, and therefore cannot be proven or disproved.

VioletSky

Can we just get on board with not having double standards please

🤣🤣🤣
You could start.

I'm pretty sure the question was put to you hypothetically VS.

I did have the same thought Rosie and if it was in anyway because the head thought the children would be less than honest, that wouldn't reflect very well on them would it, but of course we don't know.

I was thinking about this and if it were me I'd have refused to issue an apology in the presence of the head. If s/he thought it better for my protection, I'd have thanked them but insisted s/he not be there.

Glorianny says the head 'supervising' the apology was for the teacher's protection. If any of the girls lied to their parents about the apology she would be able to confirm that it was made and was sincere. This acknowledges that these girls might lie. Therefore do all the teachers at the school need a chaperone at all times in case a girl misrepresents them to their parents and they need backup as to the truth?
I have no problem with the teacher apologising in an appropriate way. I do have a problem that there would be any need to supervise that apology. I think she's been treated shabbily.

VioletSky

I don't think it was put to me as hypothetical at all, I just treated it like it was

Are you talking about the guidelines one? I said 'What would you do if the guidelines changed?' That is 100% hypothetical! Check out the 'if', if you remain unconvinced .

VioletSky

Can we just get on board with not having double standards please

I'd rather not, but you crack on.

VioletSky

What's the point of discussion where we can't be hypothetical

I was asked to answer a hypothetical question about my actual real world job

Of course we can be hypothetical in discussions, but not use a hypothetical situation to 'prove' that something happened in the way that would back up our prejudices.

'What would you do if. . .' is clearly and obviously asking for a hypothetical answer, but posts on the lines of * 'The school is private so can have its own ethos and some parents want their children educated to be able to tell teachers what to do and this is what is behind the incident . . . . '

*I am not trawling back to find exact words, but this is not twisting the meaning of what was said - I know Glorianny's MO on things like this so got in first

I don't think it was put to me as hypothetical at all, I just treated it like it was

The question you were asked was hypothetical VS but Glorianny isn't citing hypothetical scenarios, she's putting them across as being fact when no one knows if they're fact or fiction.

Referring to GC views could only be relevant if this is purely about a or a number of students wishing to be non binary, but it isn't.

As for Unable to separate their GC views from any situation this is just as applicable to you Glorianny. I must say this thread's become rather entertaining as the only way that you seem to be able to discredit what you consider to be GC views is to twist what's been said, fabricate and asDoodledog has pointed out, invent scenarios to suit your point of view.

Can we just get on board with not having double standards please

I thought we were basing discussion on what people actually say, not what we decided they mean?

Glorianny

Now I really know why I object to
anyone who disagrees with me.

Unable to take an objective view of anything because of their GC views.

Meaning that they disagree with me, so I’ll call them GC

Unable to separate their GC views from any situation

Meaning that they disagree with me, so I’ll call them GC

So G, you’re Unable therefore to do anything but condemn those who don't agree with what you say.
Your posts, predictable as ever, reflect exactly how you appear to be.

What's the point of discussion where we can't be hypothetical

I was asked to answer a hypothetical question about my actual real world job

Also, your views are hardly objective - they are based on an invented scenario that you’ve made up to suit them!

Which translated means, people who don't agree with me are wrong.
Also, you do not know what the ethos of the school is, because you do not know which of the GDST schools it is.

Now I really know why I object to the gender critical.
Unable to take an objective view of anything because of their GC views.
Unable to separate their GC views from any situation
Unable therefore to do anything but condemn those who don't agree with their GC views.
As I said I don't care what the reason for this dispute was. The basic principles of shared responsibility and the importance of teachers fitting in with the ethos of the school remain the same whatever the issue.

Allsorts thanks, I’ve caught up with the exchanges here and was losing the will to contribute but your comment made me 😄

I understand and agree with posts by doodle , Galaxy, smiles and mollygo. It follows I’m bemused by glory and Violet. Being in this place on these threads is familiar.