The weak Prime Minister

ronib

Daiane Abbott is headline news. Her twitter is interesting too

‘I wish to wholly and unreservedly withdraw my remarks and disassociate myself from them.’

Seriously?

This needs to be on the correct thread as it is detracting from this threads conversation.

Or perhaps that is your intention?

I see Cleverly is following his predecessors and failing folk as they try to escape a wore torn country. In this case it is Sudan.

Daiane Abbott is headline news. Her twitter is interesting too

‘I wish to wholly and unreservedly withdraw my remarks and disassociate myself from them.’

Seriously?

ronib

A complete Ship of Fools which historically has contained Diane Abbot also.

Why the need to single out Diane Abbott? Totally unnecessary.

A complete Ship of Fools which historically has contained Diane Abbot also.

Whitewavemark2

Just started Dunt - case study of Grayling -dear oh dear.

Quite!

Dunt thinks it rather unfair that Grayling acquired his now legendary nick-name because...

"Grayling is actually “a completely standard example of the quality of the ministerial class in Britain”.

A complete Ship of Fools.

Also the factionalism played out in the Labour Party. You can see it in miniature on here🙂.

I honestly think that some sort of PR is so urgently needed and would resolve so many issues.

Just started Dunt - case study of Grayling -dear oh dear.

^ We don't know exactly what the official did to exceed the Cabinet's policy requirement but Tolley does not say the official was right to do so.^

This was not explicitly covered in Tolley's report, here was nothing about CS's acting out of place, so why should he say anything about it?

This is just part of Raab's whingeing about having to resign. It is irrelevant for reasons I've already touched on in these discussions.

You need to read Ian Dunt's exhaustively researched book, Grantanow.

The whole lot is dysfunctional. The government (the Executive) are taking more and more powers to itself and sideling Parliament. (Something I have been banging on about from time to time in the past 7 years, so I'm glad to see that my fears have been justified). If people don't understand the implications of this then they need to go back the the English Civil war and learn what it was all about.

Tolley does not contradict Raab's view of himself despite several interviews. We don't know exactly what the official did to exceed the Cabinet's policy requirement but Tolley does not say the official was right to do so. I don't agree that Whitehall is a creaking system but it is increasingly under-resourced like most of the public sector.

but he also recognises Raab's intelligence and diligence.

I'm sorry, Grantnow, but what intelligence and diligence? I very much got the impression that Tolley was taking Raab on his own estimation. His actual record as a minister doesn't demonstrate much of either quality. This is the man who didn't realise the importance of Dover to our trade with Europe and the man who completely failed to plan for a timely and orderly evacuation of Afghan civilians from Afghanistan, despite having ample warning that it would be needed.

He was a very bad minister and should have gone after the Afghan debacle, if not before.

but I am left with unanswered questions about senior officials' resilience, whether government policy was subverted in one case by an official and how reasonable it is for a Minister to be angry with officials given the potential consequences of their shortcomings.

Ministers have been moaning about the 'obstreperousness' of civil servants for decades. Raab's whining is both unfair, because the civil servant in question has no way of responding, and petulant. We know nothing about the case in question.

I can appreciate that ministers might be angry with officials, but bullying is no way to deal with it. It's not right in any workplace.

I would suggest that you read the book I refer to on the other Raab thread. The whole of the Westminster machinery is deeply flawed and dysfunctional. It is horrendous, even terrifying, that we trust such a creaking, shambolic and dysfunctional institution to govern us wisely... Much of it is not the fault of individuals, but of the system they have to work with.

I've read Tolley's report and it is a very well done piece of work. It is far more nuanced than politicians on all sides with an axe to grind and the media would want us to think. Tolley is quite clear than Raab overstepped the mark in the FCO but effectively dismisses the other complaints for various reasons while commending civil servants who spoke or wrote to him but he also recognises Raab's intelligence and diligence. Raab was right to resign but I am left with unanswered questions about senior officials' resilience, whether government policy was subverted in one case by an official and how reasonable it is for a Minister to be angry with officials given the potential consequences of their shortcomings. In my opinion Raab's point that the report is flawed is based in part on Tolley's point that his investigation did not apply the evidential standards as would be required in a court.

The levels of arrogance and entitlement are truly off the scale.

And what gets me is how Johnson and Truss are automatically invited to some international events because they’re ex PM’s.

I’m surprised that Truss has the nerve to appear in public at all, let alone at international events

I’ve just read Sunak’s letter in response to Raab’s resignation.

If anyone wants evidence of weakness, that letter is it.

MayBee70

And what gets me is how Johnson and Truss are automatically invited to some international events because they’re ex PM’s.

I don't know about Truss, but I'm sure Johnson makes sure he gets an invite - one way or another.

He's definitely the type who watches the crowd's direction before jumping in front of them, and telling them to "follow me".

MayBee70

I find in incredible that he has to resign for bullying when he has been completely useless in every post he has held. I am particularly furious about the way he let down the Afghan people that worked for us and have not only been left behind to face the Taliban but are now being thwarted in attempts to escape to this country by this governments immigration bill. Of course, the electorate have forgotten about Afghanistan ( and many of them don’t care anyway). Is Raab complaining about the system that has found him guilty of bulling even though, as Justice Minister isn’t he responsible for that very system?How many government ministers have now had to leave office for misdemeanours? And what gets me is how Johnson and Truss are automatically invited to some international events because they’re ex PM’s.

Excellent stuff

First thoughts are that Dominic Raab set himself a very long working day Monday to Thursday with constituency work on a Friday plus working at the weekend. Not so good for work/life balance and he must have been under enormous pressure. He also seems to have excelled at boxing which helped him over the loss of his father at the age of 12 years. So maybe a combative style was more natural to him? I don’t know.

It does seem that if Raab had issues with the work of junior civil servants then it was inappropriate for him to tackle them directly. All communication should go through the Permanent Secretary and the Minister should not be involved. So clearly this is an area for government to examine should this situation arise in the future.

It does seem from the report that government and its civil service may have a tendency to be conflict ridden rather than co-operative, fluid and open.
Or perhaps at the end of the day, a clash of ideas and personalities added to the mix?

I am glad that Oliver Dowden is DPM and hope that this country can be helped by him through the difficult months ahead.

I thought I’d clean my fridge first

I'm working my way through it now. I just stopped for a breather.

Have you read the report MaizieD?

Excellent post, MayBee70.

Katie59

ronib

MaizieD what proof do you have that senior civil servants do follow?
On reading the resignation letter, it seems there was a problem with a key diplomat in Ukraine but we are unlikely to be given the details.
If eight cases of bullying were alleged and only two were agreed, then were six cases fabricated? Let’s remember how very clever the senior civil service is.
No harm in taking a closer look at the working of government?

It’s not so much “fabricated” it’s wether the actions or words were bullying or valid criticism, Rabb is claiming that any criticism is interpreted as bullying.
For example shouting and swearing is obviously bullying, but is saying that someone is useless and not doing their job.

Er. It appears that ronib hasn't actually read the report yet, so I'll take a rain check on accepting her 'judgement' of civil servants.

ronib at 11.57

Yes link works …. Maybe read it tonight!

I find in incredible that he has to resign for bullying when he has been completely useless in every post he has held. I am particularly furious about the way he let down the Afghan people that worked for us and have not only been left behind to face the Taliban but are now being thwarted in attempts to escape to this country by this governments immigration bill. Of course, the electorate have forgotten about Afghanistan ( and many of them don’t care anyway). Is Raab complaining about the system that has found him guilty of bulling even though, as Justice Minister isn’t he responsible for that very system?How many government ministers have now had to leave office for misdemeanours? And what gets me is how Johnson and Truss are automatically invited to some international events because they’re ex PM’s.