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Dominic Raab

(199 Posts)
glammanana Fri 21-Apr-23 09:56:00

He has resigned as Dept.Prime Minister

DaisyAnne Sun 23-Apr-23 09:44:50

Mamie

I have just seen a headline that says "Raab's unpleasant behaviour is a symptom of his mediocrity'".
Quite.

What did he actually achieve?

I get the impression he (and many in this government) cannot work with reality. Sometimes they cannot work with the speed (never fast enough) at which things can be done; but they wont take on the planning ahead that would help.

Sometimes the money and resources are not there but, nevertheless, they want to throw both at the problem. Sometimes the want people to work without any resources (never them, of course).

I'm sure others could add to this list, but reality has to be faced in the end, whether the Conservatives like it or not. They cannot blame the Civil Service for its existence.

Germanshepherdsmum Sun 23-Apr-23 09:39:58

That’s not shouting though Casdon. I merely took issue with the suggestion that he shouted.
Don’t be silly Mamie.

Mamie Sun 23-Apr-23 09:35:54

Is there a legal definition of shouting GSM?

Casdon Sun 23-Apr-23 09:33:01

That’s not entirely true, is it? The report found that he had an interruptive style of cutting people off and that his behaviour was intimidating and abrasive. He was a bully, there’s no dressing it up.

Germanshepherdsmum Sun 23-Apr-23 09:26:49

Whitewavemark2

Nor did he find the reverse.

Finding no persuasive evidence means, politely, not believing those who made the allegation.

Mamie Sun 23-Apr-23 09:24:06

I have just seen a headline that says "Raab's unpleasant behaviour is a symptom of his mediocrity'".
Quite.

Whitewavemark2 Sun 23-Apr-23 09:23:42

Nor did he find the reverse.

Germanshepherdsmum Sun 23-Apr-23 09:15:32

M0nica

I listened to Raab in his interview saying, in effect, if you cannot shout at people they will not work well. In fact if you shout at people they cannot work well and will not because they resent being hollered at.

I was a departmental manage for 12 years and I never once even raised my voice to any of my staff - and as is inevitable, I had one or two who pushed me to my limit. But I got far more done by keeping my temper and managing my staff than several managers around me got by shouting at people.

Tolley found no persuasive evidence of shouting.

DaisyAnne Sun 23-Apr-23 09:04:25

Aveline

'Yes Minister' always rang bells with me. Obviously, Raab didn't have a Sir Humphrey.

Were you a Civil Servant Aveline? It would be interesting to hear how you found it.

Casdon Sun 23-Apr-23 08:42:43

Aveline

'Yes Minister' always rang bells with me. Obviously, Raab didn't have a Sir Humphrey.

Raab was no Jim Hacker, that’s for sure.

Aveline Sun 23-Apr-23 08:38:25

'Yes Minister' always rang bells with me. Obviously, Raab didn't have a Sir Humphrey.

DaisyAnne Sun 23-Apr-23 08:30:53

I thought this was always the intention Whitewave. Because the USA style of government has improved the lives of Johnson and Sunak, they will believe we should have it here so that "people like them" can rape the county's wealth and claim it for themselves.

Interestingly and sadly, the members of the general population claiming ownership of "Britishness" seem to have no idea how government actually works in the USA (or here?) or how different, mainly worse, their lives would have been under that sort of culture they often laud.

Whitewavemark2 Sun 23-Apr-23 07:53:26

I see that the cultural wars are now including the civil service as well as immigrants now.

I read that the right of the Tory party is looking to politicise the civil service, similar to the USA i assume.

One thing we can be proud of is the separation of the executive and administration. It has served us excellently for over a century and ensures continuity and smooth running in the event if the government collapsing, or indeed incompetence etc.

Political appointments are never for the benefit of the country.

hallgreenmiss Sun 23-Apr-23 07:33:48

If Raab really believes that if you cannot shout at people they will not work well then there’s no hope. He should never be put in a position of authority over anyone.

DaisyAnne Sat 22-Apr-23 22:59:51

MaizieD

Primrose53

Casdon

Primrose53

And the biggest bully of the lot, Bercow is keeping a very low profile.

Probably because he’s no longer an MP…..

Better known as the Speaker of The House of Commons and a massive bully.

At least he was good at his job. Which is more than could ever be said of Raab.

But I really don't know what he has to do with this thread.

Just more deflection?

MaizieD Sat 22-Apr-23 22:37:53

Primrose53

Casdon

Primrose53

And the biggest bully of the lot, Bercow is keeping a very low profile.

Probably because he’s no longer an MP…..

Better known as the Speaker of The House of Commons and a massive bully.

At least he was good at his job. Which is more than could ever be said of Raab.

But I really don't know what he has to do with this thread.

Casdon Sat 22-Apr-23 21:46:02

Primrose53

Casdon

Primrose53

And the biggest bully of the lot, Bercow is keeping a very low profile.

Probably because he’s no longer an MP…..

Better known as the Speaker of The House of Commons and a massive bully.

Was. No longer an MP since 2019. I’m not sure what you mean, do you expect an ex MP to raise his head and say ‘I did the same’ four years after he left the job?

Primrose53 Sat 22-Apr-23 21:07:13

Casdon

Primrose53

And the biggest bully of the lot, Bercow is keeping a very low profile.

Probably because he’s no longer an MP…..

Better known as the Speaker of The House of Commons and a massive bully.

Chocolatelovinggran Sat 22-Apr-23 20:47:38

M0nica - absolutely. I tried to manage my team in my career with respect and good humour. Managing people and resources is what managers do - if they can't do it well they should consider another career. I understand that, since Brexit, we are very short of fruit pickers....

M0nica Sat 22-Apr-23 19:41:38

I listened to Raab in his interview saying, in effect, if you cannot shout at people they will not work well. In fact if you shout at people they cannot work well and will not because they resent being hollered at.

I was a departmental manage for 12 years and I never once even raised my voice to any of my staff - and as is inevitable, I had one or two who pushed me to my limit. But I got far more done by keeping my temper and managing my staff than several managers around me got by shouting at people.

Wyllow3 Sat 22-Apr-23 19:36:10

Allsorts

Raab is just one in a long line of ministers bullied out, for that is what it is, soon everyone will be going to work in protective vests, name displayed on their fronts and a body camera. It is basically impossible to govern when sections of the population want to bring democracy down, about supposed hurt feelings. If it wasn’t so daft and serious it would be laughable.
Doubt much will be done about Dr Martin Whyte the doctors strike leader, joking about Jews being gassed and the Queens corpse. It is

It seems to me that we are close to blaming the victims. Yet the results of the enquiry into Raab are absolutely clear, and Adam Tolley KC, who led the enquiry, was appointed by a Conservative Prime Minister, and has a reputation for absolute integrity.

It seems to me that the bullying lies in Raab’s character - one of manipulation, gaslighting, blaming others, setting people against each other, using a combination of charm then put downs, rather than overt shouting or strong verbal violence. The affect of this goes far beyond being offensive or unpleasant. Its about how someone in power, working with and managing treats those who work for and/or with them.

I do think we are more aware of the complexity of bullying these days. Recent revelations in the police and fire service as to the nature of the at of manipulation by those in power are beginning to teach us a lot. The CBI - and I'm one who used to see them as rrelaible and trustworthy as regards representing business interests, is now in the spotlight.

To address intention: Someone like Raab doesn’t perceive himself as having done wrong. Yet the inquiry results are quite clear: bullying did take place.

It is how he functions, and he is very clever: look how he has immediately managed to turn blame around and how quickly.

hallgreenmiss Sat 22-Apr-23 16:15:37

See also Patrick Cockburn’s piece in today’s i newspaper; it mentions Raab as foreign secretary and the general incompetence of the government leadership.

Casdon Sat 22-Apr-23 16:07:42

Primrose53

And the biggest bully of the lot, Bercow is keeping a very low profile.

Probably because he’s no longer an MP…..

Primrose53 Sat 22-Apr-23 15:38:35

And the biggest bully of the lot, Bercow is keeping a very low profile.

Luckygirl3 Sat 22-Apr-23 15:28:01

Another good book is Why We Get The Wrong Politicians, by Isabel Hardman

This was my review for local mag.:

Hardman is a Westminster lobby journalist and assistant editor of The Spectator, so has been able to observe the workings of the House of Commons at close quarters. She analyses the motivations of those who stand for Parliament, followed by their rapid disenchantment as they start to work out that they are virtually powerless.

She is in the main sympathetic to MPs, recognising the home-wrecking nature of their chosen career path, and the huge sacrifices that have to be made in so many areas: health, family life, finances, moral standards, idealism. It is a sorry tale of sheer impotence in the face of an arcane system in Westminster.

She acknowledges the presence of corrupt self-serving individuals - but did they start out that way, or did the system at Westminster push them in that direction as being the only rational course of action to save their career?

She observes the novice MPs who arrive bright-eyed and bushy-tailed, fresh from their heady triumph, and full of political fervour to improve the nation, but find themselves sucked into jostling for a remote chance of making a difference; and faced with massive moral compromises. Such painful disillusionment presents a dilemma: give it all up and face the fact that all that hard work and massive expenditure were in vain, and try and pick up the pieces of your life without too much loss of face; or go with the flow and try to carve a niche for yourself by fair means or foul?

She asks: “Why would anyone with a vaguely decent perspective on life and a few hobbies want to go anywhere near Parliament?” And her answers are not unkind – she recognises the often laudable motives of many candidates, and laments the fate of so many as they cave in to the prevailing moral mire that confronts them at Westminster.

The pathway to Parliament demands money in quantities that many candidates underestimate, which is why “We end up with a political class that cannot instinctively see the impact of bad policies on the most vulnerable.” Not bad people then, she seems to say, just ignorant of real life.

She is full of praise for the dedication of many MPs to their constituency casework. How sickeningly ironic it is that so much of their time is spent sorting out the impact of their own flawed legislation on ordinary people.

This is a good book, with her assertions well researched and backed-up; and a real compassion for those decent people who find themselves locked into a system that leaves many frustrated and miserable, and easy prey for the booze and the marriage-destroying charms of fresh newly-graduated young assistants. It is also a very sad book – sad for the individuals involved and sad for all of us whose lives are dictated by legislation that is passed under such devious processes.

“What is far worse than the few fools and failures that every parliament seems to contain is the fact that the House of Commons is – both structurally and culturally – not working, and that will remain the case no matter how many snap elections we have over the next few years.”