Diane Abbott suspended from the Labour Party

Smileless2012

That's why she should know better HPQ.

I agree, it is a complex subject, and very emotive. As a person who has never experienced discrimination on grounds of my skin colour or religion, it is difficult for me to comment really. I do think that Starmer has done the right thing by dealing with this situation swiftly.

tickingbird

I’ll ignore the rampant anti semitism by some on this thread; it’s there for all to see. Using the actions of Israel to defend attacks on Jews. I’ll ask again, are attacks on Muslims acceptable because of the actions of Isis or the appalling human rights abuses by Muslim countries? No and rightly so.

Every Synagogue has a police presence at services, Schoolchildren at Jewish schools are given police protection. This has been going on for years.

There isn’t a hierarchy of prejudice and discrimination although Abbott quite clearly believes only black people can truly suffer from such racism and for any other group it’s akin to being teased for being ginger.

She’s obviously gone too far this time and her so called apology is pathetic and shows her in an even worse light if that’s possible. As my late Mum used to to tell me “when people show you who they are, pay attention”. Seems rather a lot of people are paying attention to DA now and I hope she’s finished.

Agree with every word👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

She’s also a liability to the Labour Party and has been for a while.

That's why she should know better HPQ.

Sorry if I inadvertently gave the wrong impression earlier. Anti-semitism is always racist, and takes no account of a person's religion or lack of same. One of the victims of the Holocaust was a Roman Catholic nun of Jewish origin, by the name of Edith Stein. Incidentally, Diane Abbot also included gypsies in her list of people who did not suffer racism and many of those also died in the Holocaust.

Having been away for a few days, I haven't read this entire thread, so apologies if I repeat what someone else has said.

I agree with Fleurpepper post of 10:41 today.

I am no fan of Diane Abbott, her patronising tone on radio shows irritates me no end. but she has without doubt experienced racism (and sexism) herself.

I disagree Fleurpepper. Jewish people are often recognisable through facial features or speech, and on paper through their names. Also, if religiously observant, through wearing a yarmulke and other traditional items of clothing. They do face racism from too many people in this country, of that I have no doubt. Even physical attacks. Ask your ‘many Jewish friends’. Please stop trying to defend the indefensible. Racism is wrong on any level.

I’ll ignore the rampant anti semitism by some on this thread; it’s there for all to see. Using the actions of Israel to defend attacks on Jews. I’ll ask again, are attacks on Muslims acceptable because of the actions of Isis or the appalling human rights abuses by Muslim countries? No and rightly so.

Every Synagogue has a police presence at services, Schoolchildren at Jewish schools are given police protection. This has been going on for years.

There isn’t a hierarchy of prejudice and discrimination although Abbott quite clearly believes only black people can truly suffer from such racism and for any other group it’s akin to being teased for being ginger.

She’s obviously gone too far this time and her so called apology is pathetic and shows her in an even worse light if that’s possible. As my late Mum used to to tell me “when people show you who they are, pay attention”. Seems rather a lot of people are paying attention to DA now and I hope she’s finished.

maddyone

Fleurpepper
I’m afraid I cannot accept your argument that Jewish people don’t experience anti semitism on a daily basis. Why then did the Home Secretary ramp up protection for Jewish people only in March this year? More funding was added to the fund given by government for the protection of Jewish schools and synagogues, and there is to be a new dedicated police force department for the protection of Jewish communities. Why is this necessary if Jewish people don’t face racist attacks?

It's a complex issue. I am talking about individuals, on a day to day basis. They can go about their daily business and life without being noticed at all. Unlike people with different colour skin who are constantly being targetted, especially young black men. They can't hide- any time, any day, any night.

I totally disapprove of separate Religious schools that do not follow the NC, be they Islamic, Jewish or whatever. By separating themselves, they discriminate against their own children by limiting their education, etc. And make themselves deliberately different and out of mainstream life and culture. They should not be discriminated for this, but that is a choice they make, to make themselves visibly different. Most or at least a large proportion of Muslims and Jews choose to integrate.

As for what you call 'the left wing of the Labour Party' being antisemitic- I totally disagree, They are anti zionism, and anti the destruction and disgusting abuse of the Palestinian people, and the increasing and relentless theft of their land by the most disgusting and inhumane ways possible. THAT is not antisemitism. Many of my Jewish friends agree with them, and are seriously abused by their own people.

Perhaps have a look at police stop and search stats, for instance. To try and pretend that some groups, still today, in the UK- do not experience disproportionate targetting, prejudice and full on racism, is as nonsensical as DA's letter says

I havent seen anyone suggest that some groups do not experience disproportionately racism!!

But whether it is daily, disproportionately or "only when identified" is frankly irrelevant. The fact is Jewish people experience racism. I have no idea why this is even being argued about really.

Franbern

Glorianny

She has apologised, she isn't anti-semitic, nor is Corbyn. They are pro-Palestine. The weaponising of anti-semitism to purge left wingers and Palestinian supporters from the LP is one of the most disgusting occurrences in its history. It needs to be recognised for what it is.

So very true, Glorianny. Starmer has expelled from the Labour Party so very many Jewish members who all happen to be socialist enough to oppose the very right wing government at present in Israel. Under him there has been far more long-time members who also happen to jewish expelled than previously.]
The ludicrous lies about Corbyn have been proved exactly that - lies.
Starmer and co have been just waiting for a chance to get rid of Abbott - and she has now given them that. Daft, IMO, to try to compare racism suffered over centuries by different groups.

Very few people left in the parliamentary labour party who could be classified in any way as socialist now.

Exactly Franbern.

It's all part of the anti left focus in Labour right now.

Who will stand up to be counted when Palestine has been wiped out? Will it be recorded as a holocaust, or will it just be ignored as the process of destruction is being ignored now?

Why do so few seem to care about this?

There are many kinds of discrimination. I was the victim of one particular kind when I was young. Thankfully it doesn't exist any more now.
But I don't want to trivialise the terrible discriminations which still do exist, of course. And I think DAs attitude is extraordinary.

Fleurpepper
I’m afraid I cannot accept your argument that Jewish people don’t experience anti semitism on a daily basis. Why then did the Home Secretary ramp up protection for Jewish people only in March this year? More funding was added to the fund given by government for the protection of Jewish schools and synagogues, and there is to be a new dedicated police force department for the protection of Jewish communities. Why is this necessary if Jewish people don’t face racist attacks?

She isn’t a member of the shadow cabinet but is a member of the Home Affairs Committee wwm.

Primrose there a time when it was the norm to see ‘no blacks,
no Irish, no dogs ‘ in windows of lodging houses.

What job is that?

DA is very ignorant and thinks she “owns” racism. Her racism is worse than anybody else's she thinks.

Having Irish heritage (and reddish hair!) I have long known that in the 1600s several hundred people were taken as “slaves”from Ireland to Barbados and a few other Caribbean islands. They became known as “red legs” because their very pale skin burned dreadfully in the sunshine.

In fact, even to this day their descendants live out there in very poor conditions and are considered the bottom of the social pile. Clearly DA missed out on this part of history.

As for saying Irish people don’t suffer from racism, that’s what she thinks! I was in a seaside town last week and there were Irish joke hats with ginger hair poking out, Irish mugs with the handle on the inside, irish joke books ….. that would never happen with, say, African or Caribbean merchandise. There would be uproar, yet Irish people just have to suck it up.

Lots of people think that all Irish people are fiery and short tempered and troublemakers. My Mum and I came across that many times over the years and even when my Mum was a poorly 95 year old a nurse said to her “I bet you had a real temper when you were young”.

DA should lose her job over this.

Glorianny

She has apologised, she isn't anti-semitic, nor is Corbyn. They are pro-Palestine. The weaponising of anti-semitism to purge left wingers and Palestinian supporters from the LP is one of the most disgusting occurrences in its history. It needs to be recognised for what it is.

So very true, Glorianny. Starmer has expelled from the Labour Party so very many Jewish members who all happen to be socialist enough to oppose the very right wing government at present in Israel. Under him there has been far more long-time members who also happen to jewish expelled than previously.]
The ludicrous lies about Corbyn have been proved exactly that - lies.
Starmer and co have been just waiting for a chance to get rid of Abbott - and she has now given them that. Daft, IMO, to try to compare racism suffered over centuries by different groups.

Very few people left in the parliamentary labour party who could be classified in any way as socialist now.

Casdon

Glorianny

I was thinking about the number of gaffes, inaccuracies and downright lies made by some male MPs, without really much public censure. When a woman does it she gets jumped on and widely criticised. Perhaps that is one reason we still don't have equal numbers of women MPs.
As for the lies. This government do it all the time in parliament, seldom apologise and never correct the lie.
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-false-statements-list-parliament-b2060797.html

If we are going to have standards lets make sure they are applied to all.

I agree with you on standards applying to all Glorianny. I wouldn’t expect any MP who made a similar statement to remain in the party, whichever party it was.

So is saying in parliament that the majority of asylum seekers are economic migrants (when they aren't) a similar statement Casdon. I would argue it is. It is an equally racist statement in my opinion. It was made by the Home Secretary.

Although I do very much disagree with her comments in this letter I do have sympathy for her and can see why she thinks that. When you have been discriminated against all your life you do get a blinkered view of discrimination and think that it is all against you and none against others.
Her mistakes do seem to get a lot more publicity than other MPs. I don't think that is because she is a woman or that she is black but because her views are more left wing.

That is dodging the issue, Glorianny,: you are right of course saying standards are "Across the board" but the response would have been the same: Starmer was right to act as he did

February 2023 Reuters report

www.reuters.com/world/uk/anti-semitism-incidents-uk-fall-record-high-2023-02-09/

LONDON, Feb 9 (Reuters) - The number of anti-Semitic incidents in Britain last year fell by more than a quarter from a record high seen in 2021,

but an increasing number of children are becoming victims of hatred, a Jewish advisory body said on Thursday.
The annual report by the Community Security Trust (CST), which advises Britain’s estimated 280,000 Jews on security matters, recorded 1,652 anti-Jewish incidents in 2022, down 27% from the number the previous year.

"Each month, CST receives well over 100 reports of anti-Jewish hatred. This is what everyday anti-Semitism now looks like and it is without any particular trigger event, whether domestic or overseas," CST Chief Executive mark Gardner said.

"The devil in the detail is the growing number of children who feature as both victims and perpetrators."

Fleurpepper, you lost me with your assertion that Diane Abbott "is right in the main", so in effect, you are defending her view. You then go on to try to put a positive spin on it... a fruitless exercise IMHO. We are clearly on very different pages as regards interpretaion of what was written and published in The Observer, so let's just agree to differ "in extremis". "Right in the main?" Not in my universe. Abbott then went on, firstly to claim that "it was a draft", as if that somehow makes a difference, and then to publicly apologise and to withdraw her statement, again, as if that somehow diminishes the severity of her latest gaffe. Someone really should have prised the shovel from her hands before she continued to dig herself deeper in. Appalling.

Glorianny

I was thinking about the number of gaffes, inaccuracies and downright lies made by some male MPs, without really much public censure. When a woman does it she gets jumped on and widely criticised. Perhaps that is one reason we still don't have equal numbers of women MPs.
As for the lies. This government do it all the time in parliament, seldom apologise and never correct the lie.
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-false-statements-list-parliament-b2060797.html

If we are going to have standards lets make sure they are applied to all.

I agree with you on standards applying to all Glorianny. I wouldn’t expect any MP who made a similar statement to remain in the party, whichever party it was.

It’s nothing to do with her being a woman. Don’t make excuses for her.

I was thinking about the number of gaffes, inaccuracies and downright lies made by some male MPs, without really much public censure. When a woman does it she gets jumped on and widely criticised. Perhaps that is one reason we still don't have equal numbers of women MPs.
As for the lies. This government do it all the time in parliament, seldom apologise and never correct the lie.
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-false-statements-list-parliament-b2060797.html

If we are going to have standards lets make sure they are applied to all.

Freya5

Not before time. The woman is a car crash everytime she opens her mouth. Several incidents over the years have led me to believe she is a woman who should never have been allowed to be an MP.

She has a majority of over 33,000 are you saying their vote shouldn't be respected?