Diane Abbott suspended from the Labour Party

Results of the 1938 election and referendum (about the annexation of Austria)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1938_German_parliamentary_election_and_referendum

GagaJo

Jackiest

Both the slave trade and the second world war were a long time ago. Now is not the time, if there ever was to start arguing my ancestors suffering was worse than yours. It is also far to long ago for vengeance. Now is the time to learn from the mistakes and set up systems so they can never happen again and then move on to a better world.

Tell that to the Windrush people who are still trying to fight discrimination and possible deportation. It isn't over.

One form of racism does not preclude others.

It's not a league table of who's suffered most abuse.

The problem with "an apology" in this context is that she presumably does believe exactly what she stated so what exactly is she apologising for. I can't imagine any explanation she could give for these views that would cut it really, even if she defined racism and defined prejudice and the differences as SHE sees them

growstuff

GagaJo

Jackiest

Both the slave trade and the second world war were a long time ago. Now is not the time, if there ever was to start arguing my ancestors suffering was worse than yours. It is also far to long ago for vengeance. Now is the time to learn from the mistakes and set up systems so they can never happen again and then move on to a better world.

Tell that to the Windrush people who are still trying to fight discrimination and possible deportation. It isn't over.

One form of racism does not preclude others.

It's not a league table of who's suffered most abuse.

I appreciate that. My point is that it isn't totally in the past. For some, it is part of their present.

I'm in no way pitting one group against another.

Gagajo I don’t doubt that people are racist about Diane Abbott, in fact I know that she has received vile abuse on Twitter from vile people (I don’t do Twitter so have only read/heard about this) and I am ashamed that human beings can behave in such a vile manner. However, DA is not beyond criticism (are any of us?) and it is simply not good enough to assert that any criticism of her is purely due to racism. It just maybe that she’s said or done something offensive to others herself.

gagajo Diane definition of those subject to racism was far narrower than just people of a different skin colour, she specifically limited it to only applying to those who had been manacled in slave ships. Thus she excludes anyone of non-west African descent, whether African, Asian or from anywhere else, even if their skin is different colour

Well yes, we all know that cruel, murderous discrimination has often not been about colour, or race. Like the British concentration camps where the Boers were kept and died of starvation of disease way before the German camps. And the way Israelis are now treating Palestinians.

I’m relieved the LP acted swiftly. Despite what Grany and Gloryannie always claim in these discussions, anti semitism was rife in the Corbyn era]. You quote your Jewish friends, I refer to mine. Holocaust survivors here in north Manchester keeping a suitcase/go bag by the door in case Corbyn the anti semite, they believed, got into number 10. To a person these were Labour voters until they werent

GagaJo: I never mentioned windrush I only mentioned the slave trade and the second world war. The windrush scandal did not start till 2018.

Rees-Mogg made outrageous comments about the reality of the British concentration camps in South Africa- can't remember any of the above posters complaining about it.

The Windrush scandal started in 1948! It was a scandal how those people were badly treated, abused and exploited, right from the start.

Yes Iam anti semitism was rife during the Corbyn years, 100
apologies does change the fact of Abbott’s view on anti semitism,

Fleurpepper

Rees-Mogg made outrageous comments about the reality of the British concentration camps in South Africa- can't remember any of the above posters complaining about it.

The Windrush scandal started in 1948! It was a scandal how those people were badly treated, abused and exploited, right from the start.

Indeed! If he were a member of a political party with any moral compass, he would have been at the very least reprimanded for them. Hopefully, the Labour Party will never stoop that low.

Sparklefizz

^I think Ms Abbott would benefit from History lessons.^

... and Maths !

👏👏👏

Iam64

I’m relieved the LP acted swiftly. Despite what Grany and Gloryannie always claim in these discussions, anti semitism was rife in the Corbyn era]. You quote your Jewish friends, I refer to mine. Holocaust survivors here in north Manchester keeping a suitcase/go bag by the door in case Corbyn the anti semite, they believed, got into number 10. To a person these were Labour voters until they werent

I agree with you. I know somebody who was a very active member of the Manchester Labour Party before Corbyn became leader. She canvassed regularly, but gave up her membership after listening to what people on the ground were saying. My son also came across Labour anti-semiticism at meetings in another part of the country.

I used to think it couldn't be true, but I changed my mind.

Many many more would benefit from history lessons- and understand the racism and cruelty of the Raj, British Imperialism, the concentration camps linked to such, and why so many choose to only concentrate on some forms of racism and abuse. And that the worst wrongs of the past cannot excuse what is being done to the Palestinian people today, by those who suffered so badly in the past.

Anniebach

Yes Iam anti semitism was rife during the Corbyn years, 100
apologies does change the fact of Abbott’s view on anti semitism,

For many many years, you have been confusin anti-semitism with anti-Zionism, and totally refuse to see and understand the difference. Because one people suffered the most cruel and murderous abuse in the past, will never excuse them stealing the land, livelyhood, dignity and so much more, of another people and religion. NEVER.

Who I’m any of these discussions is supporting oppression of the Palestinian people? No one. No one amongst my Jewish friends takes such a simplistic view either

Fleurpepper

Anniebach

Yes Iam anti semitism was rife during the Corbyn years, 100
apologies does change the fact of Abbott’s view on anti semitism,

For many many years, you have been confusin anti-semitism with anti-Zionism, and totally refuse to see and understand the difference. Because one people suffered the most cruel and murderous abuse in the past, will never excuse them stealing the land, livelyhood, dignity and so much more, of another people and religion. NEVER.

Exactly Fleurpepper. It's an excuse for those on the right to continue to hammer the left. Because I don't believe that those that trot out this outdated, tired old argument are unable to understand the difference. Unless of course to them the two are the same, which amounts to their support of the destruction of the Palestinian people.

Jackiest

GagaJo: I never mentioned windrush I only mentioned the slave trade and the second world war. The windrush scandal did not start till 2018.

The part of your response I was replying to was this:

Now is the time to learn from the mistakes and set up systems so they can never happen again and then move on to a better world.

It isn't a 'so they can never happen again' situation. It is situation which is ongoing. Not arguing about who was worse off. Or bickering about specific points of history. But the active, ongoing racism, discrimination and oppression against Black British people.

Selective outrage, about selective discrimination and racism. Either you shouldn't 'select, pick and choose' or ...

It’s interesting how the far left posters on this site use Israel as a hook to hang their egregious anti semitism on. They always crawl out of the woodwork and expose themselves.

No different to laying blame for Isis on the average Muslim.

Iam64

I’m relieved the LP acted swiftly. Despite what Grany and Gloryannie always claim in these discussions, anti semitism was rife in the Corbyn era]. You quote your Jewish friends, I refer to mine. Holocaust survivors here in north Manchester keeping a suitcase/go bag by the door in case Corbyn the anti semite, they believed, got into number 10. To a person these were Labour voters until they werent

More Jews have been suspended from the LP under Starmer than ever were under Corbyn. Can you please explain why this isn't anti-semitic?
The weaponisation of anti-semitism is regarded by many as a problem Heather Mendick says
I received the email accusing me, a Jewish person, of antisemitism on Erev Rosh Hashanah when Jews believe that G-d writes our fate for the coming year in the book of life or the book of death. The email requested a response during the ten days of repentance before Yom Kippur, the day when G-d seals our fate. This was done in the name of fighting antisemitism and making the party welcoming for Jewish people. In making this claim, the Labour Party is excluding me from the category of ‘Jewish people’. I cannot express in words how painful and offensive this is. Mine is not an isolated case. There is clear evidence that Jewish members appear disproportionately among those being investigated, suspended and excluded for ‘antisemitism’. This is unsurprising as the Party is using its disciplinary processes to police what members can say about Jewish identity and about anti-Jewish racism, and these are topics on which Jewish people are understandably more likely to speak out than non-Jews.
She's just one of the Jews thrown out of the LP.
www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/article/the-weaponisation-of-antisemitism-the-case-of-heather-mendick/

tickingbird

It’s interesting how the far left posters on this site use Israel as a hook to hang their egregious anti semitism on. They always crawl out of the woodwork and expose themselves.

No different to laying blame for Isis on the average Muslim.

Not at all. You choose to totally mis-understand. What I would like to see, is those jews who disapprove of what is happening against the Palestinans to stand up and say how wrong it is. Actually, my Jewish friends do- but they are very rare, and get enormous amounts of abuse.

Extreme left? Where?

What Rees-Mogg said about the British concentration camps was abhorrent and pure lies. Did you stand up and say so? The picking and choosing comes from many sides.

As I understand it, Judaism descends through the mother, and converts are few, so I don’t see how it can not be seen as a race.

What Rees mogg said was abhorrent (most of what he says is offensive) and what diane Abbott said was abhorrent. I assume you agree FP.