Diane Abbott suspended from the Labour Party

Agreed growstuff. Never been a fan, I must say. Her comment about red heads was just nonsense, and there was no need to bring in slavery into this.

But she is right in the main. Jewish people in the UK, currently, do not suffer daily discrimination in the street, stop ans search, in employment, when wanting a loan or rent a flat, etc, etc, etc.

They cannot change the colour of their skin - it is there, and always will be. Jewish people are not visible, as such, unless they live in Haredi communities and choose to look and live so very differently from the rest of the population. They shouldnt have to suffer for that choice- although I am not happy at all about all the illegal schools and the arranged marriages, etc. As said, it is a choice for them. Most Jews are not identitifed or identifiable- and therefore do not suffer racism, today, in the UK, on a daily basis. That is absolutely correct.

Her apology stating that it is undeniable that Jews, Travellers .....can experience racism just makes her look ridiculous really. If she thinks that, why did she say the opposite in the first place!!

I think her background is irrelevant. I also think the fact that she has experienced appalling racism is irrelevant in this context as it is her views expressed that are the point. She is a conscientious MP...so does that make this debacle somehow honorable?

What a mess!

She has a track record for this kind of thing. Claiming the letter was sone kind of draft, sent in error is ludicrous

Yes black people are easier to pick out and discriminate but that does not make them the only people to be discriminated against. Which what she is saying. If you are treating someone differently or excluding someone because of their race, gender or colour then that is discrimination does not matter how insignificant you think that thing is to them it may be important and will hurt.

I actually always wanted to be red head. I was as a small child, but it soon turned dark and I was so envious of a girl at school with hair that was, quite literally copper coloured. In fact quite a lot of us envied this girl her womderful hair.

There appears to be a suggestion that there is some sort of league table for racism, with groups who are most readily identifiable, for example by the colour of their skin, very much in "the premier league". I don't subscribe to this view. Clearly, Diane Abbott (and others) do. The fact that some "do not suffer racism, today, in the UK, on a daily basis" in no way diminishes the experience of those who may not be so immediately identifiable as a target, but are nevertheless subjected to racial hatred as and when their identity is revealed. This is not a competition. All racism is equally abhorrent, and the end result is equally painful for all who are exposed to it. Abbott clearly doesn't "get" that..

I don’t believe the letter was sent in error, she is still an MP, what has she lost ? What has she gained ? Causing trouble for
Starmer. I

No NanaDana- there is no league table. Some groups and individuals are not easily identified, and therefore do not suffer day in, day out, discrimination, prejudice or racism.

Perhaps have a look at police stop and search stats, for instance. To try and pretend that some groups, still today, in the UK- do not experience disproportionate targetting, prejudice and full on racism, is as nonsensical as DA's letter.

Not before time. The woman is a car crash everytime she opens her mouth. Several incidents over the years have led me to believe she is a woman who should never have been allowed to be an MP.

Surely you are not implying this only happens in the UK, Fleurpepper ?
Other European countries can leave us standing in this area especially regarding police behaviour.
And don’t get me started on the US.

Freya5

Not before time. The woman is a car crash everytime she opens her mouth. Several incidents over the years have led me to believe she is a woman who should never have been allowed to be an MP.

How do you "not allow" somebody to be an MP?

You might disagree with her, but she has just as much right as anybody else to be an MP.

It seems to me that the people who are criticising Diane Abbott are just as bad as she has been in this letter to the Observer.

NanaDana

There appears to be a suggestion that there is some sort of league table for racism, with groups who are most readily identifiable, for example by the colour of their skin, very much in "the premier league". I don't subscribe to this view. Clearly, Diane Abbott (and others) do. The fact that some "do not suffer racism, today, in the UK, on a daily basis" in no way diminishes the experience of those who may not be so immediately identifiable as a target, but are nevertheless subjected to racial hatred as and when their identity is revealed. This is not a competition. All racism is equally abhorrent, and the end result is equally painful for all who are exposed to it. Abbott clearly doesn't "get" that..

It comes from America and critical race theory.

Clearly her constituents don’t believe that she ‘should never have been allowed to be an MP’
because she is one of few who have won elections for decades.

Freya5

Not before time. The woman is a car crash everytime she opens her mouth. Several incidents over the years have led me to believe she is a woman who should never have been allowed to be an MP.

She has a majority of over 33,000 are you saying their vote shouldn't be respected?

I was thinking about the number of gaffes, inaccuracies and downright lies made by some male MPs, without really much public censure. When a woman does it she gets jumped on and widely criticised. Perhaps that is one reason we still don't have equal numbers of women MPs.
As for the lies. This government do it all the time in parliament, seldom apologise and never correct the lie.
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-false-statements-list-parliament-b2060797.html

If we are going to have standards lets make sure they are applied to all.

It’s nothing to do with her being a woman. Don’t make excuses for her.

Glorianny

I was thinking about the number of gaffes, inaccuracies and downright lies made by some male MPs, without really much public censure. When a woman does it she gets jumped on and widely criticised. Perhaps that is one reason we still don't have equal numbers of women MPs.
As for the lies. This government do it all the time in parliament, seldom apologise and never correct the lie.
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-false-statements-list-parliament-b2060797.html

If we are going to have standards lets make sure they are applied to all.

I agree with you on standards applying to all Glorianny. I wouldn’t expect any MP who made a similar statement to remain in the party, whichever party it was.

Fleurpepper, you lost me with your assertion that Diane Abbott "is right in the main", so in effect, you are defending her view. You then go on to try to put a positive spin on it... a fruitless exercise IMHO. We are clearly on very different pages as regards interpretaion of what was written and published in The Observer, so let's just agree to differ "in extremis". "Right in the main?" Not in my universe. Abbott then went on, firstly to claim that "it was a draft", as if that somehow makes a difference, and then to publicly apologise and to withdraw her statement, again, as if that somehow diminishes the severity of her latest gaffe. Someone really should have prised the shovel from her hands before she continued to dig herself deeper in. Appalling.

That is dodging the issue, Glorianny,: you are right of course saying standards are "Across the board" but the response would have been the same: Starmer was right to act as he did

February 2023 Reuters report

www.reuters.com/world/uk/anti-semitism-incidents-uk-fall-record-high-2023-02-09/

LONDON, Feb 9 (Reuters) - The number of anti-Semitic incidents in Britain last year fell by more than a quarter from a record high seen in 2021,

but an increasing number of children are becoming victims of hatred, a Jewish advisory body said on Thursday.
The annual report by the Community Security Trust (CST), which advises Britain’s estimated 280,000 Jews on security matters, recorded 1,652 anti-Jewish incidents in 2022, down 27% from the number the previous year.

"Each month, CST receives well over 100 reports of anti-Jewish hatred. This is what everyday anti-Semitism now looks like and it is without any particular trigger event, whether domestic or overseas," CST Chief Executive mark Gardner said.

"The devil in the detail is the growing number of children who feature as both victims and perpetrators."

Although I do very much disagree with her comments in this letter I do have sympathy for her and can see why she thinks that. When you have been discriminated against all your life you do get a blinkered view of discrimination and think that it is all against you and none against others.
Her mistakes do seem to get a lot more publicity than other MPs. I don't think that is because she is a woman or that she is black but because her views are more left wing.

Casdon

Glorianny

I was thinking about the number of gaffes, inaccuracies and downright lies made by some male MPs, without really much public censure. When a woman does it she gets jumped on and widely criticised. Perhaps that is one reason we still don't have equal numbers of women MPs.
As for the lies. This government do it all the time in parliament, seldom apologise and never correct the lie.
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-false-statements-list-parliament-b2060797.html

If we are going to have standards lets make sure they are applied to all.

I agree with you on standards applying to all Glorianny. I wouldn’t expect any MP who made a similar statement to remain in the party, whichever party it was.

So is saying in parliament that the majority of asylum seekers are economic migrants (when they aren't) a similar statement Casdon. I would argue it is. It is an equally racist statement in my opinion. It was made by the Home Secretary.

Glorianny

She has apologised, she isn't anti-semitic, nor is Corbyn. They are pro-Palestine. The weaponising of anti-semitism to purge left wingers and Palestinian supporters from the LP is one of the most disgusting occurrences in its history. It needs to be recognised for what it is.

So very true, Glorianny. Starmer has expelled from the Labour Party so very many Jewish members who all happen to be socialist enough to oppose the very right wing government at present in Israel. Under him there has been far more long-time members who also happen to jewish expelled than previously.]
The ludicrous lies about Corbyn have been proved exactly that - lies.
Starmer and co have been just waiting for a chance to get rid of Abbott - and she has now given them that. Daft, IMO, to try to compare racism suffered over centuries by different groups.

Very few people left in the parliamentary labour party who could be classified in any way as socialist now.

DA is very ignorant and thinks she “owns” racism. Her racism is worse than anybody else's she thinks.

Having Irish heritage (and reddish hair!) I have long known that in the 1600s several hundred people were taken as “slaves”from Ireland to Barbados and a few other Caribbean islands. They became known as “red legs” because their very pale skin burned dreadfully in the sunshine.

In fact, even to this day their descendants live out there in very poor conditions and are considered the bottom of the social pile. Clearly DA missed out on this part of history.

As for saying Irish people don’t suffer from racism, that’s what she thinks! I was in a seaside town last week and there were Irish joke hats with ginger hair poking out, Irish mugs with the handle on the inside, irish joke books ….. that would never happen with, say, African or Caribbean merchandise. There would be uproar, yet Irish people just have to suck it up.

Lots of people think that all Irish people are fiery and short tempered and troublemakers. My Mum and I came across that many times over the years and even when my Mum was a poorly 95 year old a nurse said to her “I bet you had a real temper when you were young”.

DA should lose her job over this.

What job is that?