Diane Abbott suspended from the Labour Party

Primrose there a time when it was the norm to see ‘no blacks,
no Irish, no dogs ‘ in windows of lodging houses.

She isn’t a member of the shadow cabinet but is a member of the Home Affairs Committee wwm.

Fleurpepper
I’m afraid I cannot accept your argument that Jewish people don’t experience anti semitism on a daily basis. Why then did the Home Secretary ramp up protection for Jewish people only in March this year? More funding was added to the fund given by government for the protection of Jewish schools and synagogues, and there is to be a new dedicated police force department for the protection of Jewish communities. Why is this necessary if Jewish people don’t face racist attacks?

There are many kinds of discrimination. I was the victim of one particular kind when I was young. Thankfully it doesn't exist any more now.
But I don't want to trivialise the terrible discriminations which still do exist, of course. And I think DAs attitude is extraordinary.

Franbern

Glorianny

She has apologised, she isn't anti-semitic, nor is Corbyn. They are pro-Palestine. The weaponising of anti-semitism to purge left wingers and Palestinian supporters from the LP is one of the most disgusting occurrences in its history. It needs to be recognised for what it is.

So very true, Glorianny. Starmer has expelled from the Labour Party so very many Jewish members who all happen to be socialist enough to oppose the very right wing government at present in Israel. Under him there has been far more long-time members who also happen to jewish expelled than previously.]
The ludicrous lies about Corbyn have been proved exactly that - lies.
Starmer and co have been just waiting for a chance to get rid of Abbott - and she has now given them that. Daft, IMO, to try to compare racism suffered over centuries by different groups.

Very few people left in the parliamentary labour party who could be classified in any way as socialist now.

Exactly Franbern.

It's all part of the anti left focus in Labour right now.

Who will stand up to be counted when Palestine has been wiped out? Will it be recorded as a holocaust, or will it just be ignored as the process of destruction is being ignored now?

Why do so few seem to care about this?

Perhaps have a look at police stop and search stats, for instance. To try and pretend that some groups, still today, in the UK- do not experience disproportionate targetting, prejudice and full on racism, is as nonsensical as DA's letter says

I havent seen anyone suggest that some groups do not experience disproportionately racism!!

But whether it is daily, disproportionately or "only when identified" is frankly irrelevant. The fact is Jewish people experience racism. I have no idea why this is even being argued about really.

maddyone

Fleurpepper
I’m afraid I cannot accept your argument that Jewish people don’t experience anti semitism on a daily basis. Why then did the Home Secretary ramp up protection for Jewish people only in March this year? More funding was added to the fund given by government for the protection of Jewish schools and synagogues, and there is to be a new dedicated police force department for the protection of Jewish communities. Why is this necessary if Jewish people don’t face racist attacks?

It's a complex issue. I am talking about individuals, on a day to day basis. They can go about their daily business and life without being noticed at all. Unlike people with different colour skin who are constantly being targetted, especially young black men. They can't hide- any time, any day, any night.

I totally disapprove of separate Religious schools that do not follow the NC, be they Islamic, Jewish or whatever. By separating themselves, they discriminate against their own children by limiting their education, etc. And make themselves deliberately different and out of mainstream life and culture. They should not be discriminated for this, but that is a choice they make, to make themselves visibly different. Most or at least a large proportion of Muslims and Jews choose to integrate.

As for what you call 'the left wing of the Labour Party' being antisemitic- I totally disagree, They are anti zionism, and anti the destruction and disgusting abuse of the Palestinian people, and the increasing and relentless theft of their land by the most disgusting and inhumane ways possible. THAT is not antisemitism. Many of my Jewish friends agree with them, and are seriously abused by their own people.

I’ll ignore the rampant anti semitism by some on this thread; it’s there for all to see. Using the actions of Israel to defend attacks on Jews. I’ll ask again, are attacks on Muslims acceptable because of the actions of Isis or the appalling human rights abuses by Muslim countries? No and rightly so.

Every Synagogue has a police presence at services, Schoolchildren at Jewish schools are given police protection. This has been going on for years.

There isn’t a hierarchy of prejudice and discrimination although Abbott quite clearly believes only black people can truly suffer from such racism and for any other group it’s akin to being teased for being ginger.

She’s obviously gone too far this time and her so called apology is pathetic and shows her in an even worse light if that’s possible. As my late Mum used to to tell me “when people show you who they are, pay attention”. Seems rather a lot of people are paying attention to DA now and I hope she’s finished.

I disagree Fleurpepper. Jewish people are often recognisable through facial features or speech, and on paper through their names. Also, if religiously observant, through wearing a yarmulke and other traditional items of clothing. They do face racism from too many people in this country, of that I have no doubt. Even physical attacks. Ask your ‘many Jewish friends’. Please stop trying to defend the indefensible. Racism is wrong on any level.

Having been away for a few days, I haven't read this entire thread, so apologies if I repeat what someone else has said.

I agree with Fleurpepper post of 10:41 today.

I am no fan of Diane Abbott, her patronising tone on radio shows irritates me no end. but she has without doubt experienced racism (and sexism) herself.

Sorry if I inadvertently gave the wrong impression earlier. Anti-semitism is always racist, and takes no account of a person's religion or lack of same. One of the victims of the Holocaust was a Roman Catholic nun of Jewish origin, by the name of Edith Stein. Incidentally, Diane Abbot also included gypsies in her list of people who did not suffer racism and many of those also died in the Holocaust.

That's why she should know better HPQ.

tickingbird

I’ll ignore the rampant anti semitism by some on this thread; it’s there for all to see. Using the actions of Israel to defend attacks on Jews. I’ll ask again, are attacks on Muslims acceptable because of the actions of Isis or the appalling human rights abuses by Muslim countries? No and rightly so.

Every Synagogue has a police presence at services, Schoolchildren at Jewish schools are given police protection. This has been going on for years.

There isn’t a hierarchy of prejudice and discrimination although Abbott quite clearly believes only black people can truly suffer from such racism and for any other group it’s akin to being teased for being ginger.

She’s obviously gone too far this time and her so called apology is pathetic and shows her in an even worse light if that’s possible. As my late Mum used to to tell me “when people show you who they are, pay attention”. Seems rather a lot of people are paying attention to DA now and I hope she’s finished.

Agree with every word👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

She’s also a liability to the Labour Party and has been for a while.

Smileless2012

That's why she should know better HPQ.

I agree, it is a complex subject, and very emotive. As a person who has never experienced discrimination on grounds of my skin colour or religion, it is difficult for me to comment really. I do think that Starmer has done the right thing by dealing with this situation swiftly.

HousePlantQueen

Having been away for a few days, I haven't read this entire thread, so apologies if I repeat what someone else has said.

I agree with Fleurpepper post of 10:41 today.

I am no fan of Diane Abbott, her patronising tone on radio shows irritates me no end. but she has without doubt experienced racism (and sexism) herself.

she has without doubt experienced racism (and sexism) herself

So she surely should know better than to express racism against other people.

And to downgrade that racism to the equivalent of prejudice against people with red hair. Ridiculous and indefensible.

DA is very ignorant and thinks she “owns” racism. Her racism is worse than anybody else's she thinks.

How do you know that Primrose53?

Are you her analyst?

Germanshepherdsmum

And to downgrade that racism to the equivalent of prejudice against people with red hair. Ridiculous and indefensible.

It could be argued that people with red hair are descended from a race of Celts who themselves were prized as slaves by the Romans and Persians millennia ago.

However, now, although there is known prejudice, it does not equate to racism.

Callistemon21

HousePlantQueen

Having been away for a few days, I haven't read this entire thread, so apologies if I repeat what someone else has said.

I agree with Fleurpepper post of 10:41 today.

I am no fan of Diane Abbott, her patronising tone on radio shows irritates me no end. but she has without doubt experienced racism (and sexism) herself.

she has without doubt experienced racism (and sexism) herself

So she surely should know better than to express racism against other people.

She must have known better - that's what I find so strange. I also think she must have known what kind of furore it would cause.

I'm honestly coming round to the idea that it's been planned, that she intended to resign anyway and is causing as much trouble for Starmer as she can.

Wondering whether this weekends memorial service fir Steven Lawrence played a part in Dianne Abbot writing what she did. What happened to him woukd make anyone angry. He was a young man waiting fir a bus, whose killers were known but went free for years before they were eventually tried and committed.
She has lived with racism every day of her life and has suffered vile abuse since she became an MP.
I am not black and dont think anyone who is not black can truly understand how that might feel.
I remember the No Blacks, No Irish, No dogs notices in Windows of houses with rooms to let in London in the 60s/70s and was disgusted.

Fleurpepper
Firstly and importantly, I haven’t discussed at any point on this thread anything about the left wing of the Labour Party. I’ll accept your apology if it’s forthcoming.

As to your opinion of whether or not there should be religious schools, I’m afraid it’s irrelevant. The discussion is not about religious schools. I pointed out quite rightly that government have provided additional funds for the protection of Jewish schools and synagogues as recently as this March. That shows clearly that Jewish people in this country, that is Britain, are experiencing racism on a regular and possibly daily basis. No argument about religious schools diminishes this fact.

And additionally diminishes totally Diane Abbott’s remarks in the Observer paper yesterday.
To be honest, I’m quite surprised that the Observer’s editors thought it was appropriate to print this letter.

I agree growstuff , I do not believe that letter was sent in error.

That’s interesting growstuff, you could be right. DA could quite possibly be trying to cause trouble for Keir Starmer. I hadn’t thought of that.

growstuff

Callistemon21

HousePlantQueen

Having been away for a few days, I haven't read this entire thread, so apologies if I repeat what someone else has said.

I agree with Fleurpepper post of 10:41 today.

I am no fan of Diane Abbott, her patronising tone on radio shows irritates me no end. but she has without doubt experienced racism (and sexism) herself.

she has without doubt experienced racism (and sexism) herself

So she surely should know better than to express racism against other people.

She must have known better - that's what I find so strange. I also think she must have known what kind of furore it would cause.

I'm honestly coming round to the idea that it's been planned, that she intended to resign anyway and is causing as much trouble for Starmer as she can.

Interesting - that could well be true.
I'm surprised the letter got past the editor too.