Diane Abbott suspended from the Labour Party

I think there is also another layer to the racism faced by Jewish people, its here on this thread, their experiences are frequently minimised, its connected I think with the tropes around money and success.
I watched Jewish people receiving daily abuse online, just pop on to the Twitter feeds of any celebrity who is Jewish if you dont believe they dont experience daily abuse.

* maddy one* I pointed out quite rightly that government have provided additional funds for the protection of Jewish schools and synagogues as recently as this March. That shows clearly that Jewish people in this country, that is Britain, are experiencing racism on a regular and possibly daily basis

I agree maddy.

I also absolutely agree that a black person is possibly more easily identifiable than a Jewish person BUT I simply don't see why that is considered relevant in terms of the fact that Jewish people experience racism! And whether its daily,weekly, monthly or once in a lifetime it is STILL racism!!

No idea what point DA thought she was making really!

Galaxy I think there is also another layer to the racism faced by Jewish people, its here on this thread

True as well!

Galaxy
^I think there is also another layer to the racism faced by Jewish people, its here on this thread, their experiences are frequently minimised, its connected I think with the tropes around money and success.
I watched Jewish people receiving daily abuse online, just pop on to the Twitter feeds of any celebrity who is Jewish if you dont believe they dont experience daily abuse.^

Well said and so true. Unfortunately there is still this belief that all Jews are wealthy and run the world. It really is nonsense.

Galaxy

I think there is also another layer to the racism faced by Jewish people, its here on this thread, their experiences are frequently minimised, its connected I think with the tropes around money and success.
I watched Jewish people receiving daily abuse online, just pop on to the Twitter feeds of any celebrity who is Jewish if you dont believe they dont experience daily abuse.

No, not at all.

What do you mean Fleurpepper? I don’t understand.

I am denying the statement made by Galaxy. No-one has done this on this thread.

Fleurpepper

I am denying the statement made by Galaxy. No-one has done this on this thread.

I agree.

I'm afraid I don't understand all this obsession with racism. Consider the number of black, Asian and Jewish people in government. They were all voted into office by the British electorate. If racism was really as rife as those in power suggest, not a single one would be an MP.
The problem with Dianne Abbott and many others in the public eye (including a certain woman who married a royal), they see all slights and criticisms as being racial when it is more likely their personality that is at fault.
I know racism does exist, white people are victims of it too, but some people are obsessed by it.

Oh dear … you really have no idea.

Curtaintwitcher

I'm afraid I don't understand all this obsession with racism. Consider the number of black, Asian and Jewish people in government. They were all voted into office by the British electorate. If racism was really as rife as those in power suggest, not a single one would be an MP.
The problem with Dianne Abbott and many others in the public eye (including a certain woman who married a royal), they see all slights and criticisms as being racial when it is more likely their personality that is at fault.
I know racism does exist, white people are victims of it too, but some people are obsessed by it.

I think that those experiencing racism very regularly in their lives might understandably feel a bit obsessed by it! A black teenager walking along the road to the station getting stopped and searched 8 times in 1 month! (Son of a friend of mine) for instance. He's not obsessed actually, he's scared ..and so is his mother!!

Jackiest

The Windrush boat came to England in 1948. That was not a scandal, they were happy to come and there was work for them and housing. The scandal which was the hostile environment policy came to light in 2018 was created in 2012 sothe scandal started then.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windrush_scandal

Well it is true that they were happy to come and expected a warm welcome and jobs and housing. But that was not the experience for may after they arrived, sadly!!

Fleurpepper

Galaxy

I think there is also another layer to the racism faced by Jewish people, its here on this thread, their experiences are frequently minimised, its connected I think with the tropes around money and success.
I watched Jewish people receiving daily abuse online, just pop on to the Twitter feeds of any celebrity who is Jewish if you dont believe they dont experience daily abuse.

No, not at all.

Thanks Galaxy.
The Jewish museum in Berlin illustrates the way Jewish people have suffered anti semitism throughout time. To suggest Jewish people who hide their Jewishness by not wearing specific clothing, not sending their children to religious schools etc are avoiding discrimination is nonsense. Synagogues and schools need protection. Outside one north Manchester primary school, it isn’t unusual to hear a passer-by shout ‘can you smell gas’

Diane Abbott didn’t send this letter in error. There are local elections soon. She’s attempting to cause trouble for Starmer. She’d rather have the tories in than Labour.

'To suggest Jewish people who hide their Jewishness by not wearing specific clothing, not sending their children to religious schools etc are avoiding discrimination is nonsense.'

they have that choice, someone with black skin does not, that is the point. And where did anyone say Synagogues and schools do not need protection??? What about Islamic schools, do you think they deserve protection?

I believe the same as Iam, the letter was worded very carefully with full intent of causing trouble for Starmer, revenge perhaps

Fleurpepper, I live in a former mill town with a large Pakistani Muslim population. We have four large Islamic schools and many more under the radar home schoolers. We have had no threats or attacks. Round the corner is a large Jewish area, that’s where protection at schools and synagogues is needed. That’s where ‘can you smell the gas’ c]is sometimes heard.
To suggest as you do ‘they have a choice’ is offensive

Iam64

Fleurpepper, I live in a former mill town with a large Pakistani Muslim population. We have four large Islamic schools and many more under the radar home schoolers. We have had no threats or attacks. Round the corner is a large Jewish area, that’s where protection at schools and synagogues is needed. That’s where ‘can you smell the gas’ c]is sometimes heard.
To suggest as you do ‘they have a choice’ is offensive

I cannot understand why folks cannot or do not see the racism that Jewish men, women and children are subjected to daily.

Iam64

Fleurpepper

Galaxy

I think there is also another layer to the racism faced by Jewish people, its here on this thread, their experiences are frequently minimised, its connected I think with the tropes around money and success.
I watched Jewish people receiving daily abuse online, just pop on to the Twitter feeds of any celebrity who is Jewish if you dont believe they dont experience daily abuse.

No, not at all.

Thanks Galaxy.
The Jewish museum in Berlin illustrates the way Jewish people have suffered anti semitism throughout time. To suggest Jewish people who hide their Jewishness by not wearing specific clothing, not sending their children to religious schools etc are avoiding discrimination is nonsense. Synagogues and schools need protection. Outside one north Manchester primary school, it isn’t unusual to hear a passer-by shout ‘can you smell gas’

Diane Abbott didn’t send this letter in error. There are local elections soon. She’s attempting to cause trouble for Starmer. She’d rather have the tories in than Labour.

If that was her intention it’s backfired quite spectacularly for her though because she’s been condemned from almost all quarters for what she said. I think I’m persuaded towards her engaging her mouth not her brain again.

Fleurpepper

'To suggest Jewish people who hide their Jewishness by not wearing specific clothing, not sending their children to religious schools etc are avoiding discrimination is nonsense.'

they have that choice, someone with black skin does not, that is the point. And where did anyone say Synagogues and schools do not need protection??? What about Islamic schools, do you think they deserve protection?

You seem to be have been aligning yourself with DA’ s comments throughout this thread. Why? You have said you have many Jewish friends. Do they exercise that ‘choice’? Should they have to?

Anniebach

I believe the same as Iam, the letter was worded very carefully with full intent of causing trouble for Starmer, revenge perhaps

Agreed.

Done just before local elections, too. Oh yes, intentional.

Curtaintwitcher

I'm afraid I don't understand all this obsession with racism. Consider the number of black, Asian and Jewish people in government. They were all voted into office by the British electorate. If racism was really as rife as those in power suggest, not a single one would be an MP.
The problem with Dianne Abbott and many others in the public eye (including a certain woman who married a royal), they see all slights and criticisms as being racial when it is more likely their personality that is at fault.
I know racism does exist, white people are victims of it too, but some people are obsessed by it.

Quite. There was a white middle aged woman on TV tonight saying that she felt guilty as a white British woman regarding the British involvement in the slave trade hundreds of years ago (they were discussing DA who said there were no white people in manacles on ships).

A young, black political commentator and journalist pointed out that slave owners were not all white British so it was absolutely stupid to talk like that right now when there are far more important things going on. She is a very bright young woman. DA needs to study history a bit more.

I have literally just finished reading The Life and Times of A Very British Man by Kamal Ahmed and that’s an interesting read.

Really interesting interview/article with David Baddiel by Alister Campbell, mostly about mental health but also about the minimization or relegation as he calls it of anti semitism. He talks about the fact that Neo nazis saying they hate Jews is not interesting to him and needs no explanation but what he finds interesting is the anti racists who cant see that anti semitism is racism and so relegate it.

DA is also wrong when she says that no white people were in manacles in ships. In France in the 17th century it was common practice to sentence criminals to serve as galley slaves. Some were Protestants who had refused to convert to Catholicism. There is a memoir, Galley Slave, written by a survivor, Jean Marteilhe.

When was that on Galaxy would like to watch again?

I wouldn't say its a matter of feeling "guilty" but rather, having a keen awareness of the history of empire and of "othering" those that we as white people considered "lesser" and exploited in so many ways as well as the complexities of the many histories of slavery for thousands of years (and still happening!)

but racism has been in hearts and minds and actions for hundreds of years and I feel it's our responsibility to continue to seek to put matters right in both all the small and bigger ways when we can.

...and that means starting by recognising racism is alive and kicking (tho complex) and not smugly pretending it doesn't.