I fear the rise of National Conservatism

ronib

When the chairman of the Bank of England suggests that we should get used to having less money, I wonder just how much less he envisages. Seems possible that the economy is going to worsen and it is likely that poverty will spread up to the middle classes. As seen by the recent strikes in the Nhs, previously held middle class incomes are under pressure too.

Not the Chairman, ronib, the Chief economist. Who has no idea, on £190,000 per year, how the other half lives and who is quite wrong about wage increases causing inflation. Just plain wrong. Current inflation was caused by supply side shocks (Brexit, pandemic and war in Ukraine) and by profiteering. Wage increases have had nothing to do with it. Raising interest rates and telling the less well off that they have to put up with being poor will just slow growth even further. And create an even angrier population. Many ready to take on board the NC message

MaizieD the energy crisis too has major consequences. Yes Chief Economist not Chairman. I was surprised that anyone would make this statement.

ronib

MaizieD the energy crisis too has major consequences. Yes Chief Economist not Chairman. I was surprised that anyone would make this statement.

War in Ukraine = energy crisis, ronib.

Yet a story in today's FT shows that the rich are on a massive spending spree with the profits of one of their favourite companies soaring... Oddly enough the rich have managed to come through these crises even richer than they were when they started..

But that's really for another thread. Mustn't derail this one.

The well to do middle classes are already cutting back, buying own brands instead of premium, a £7 bottle of wine instead of £10 either their mortgage is beginning to bite or their pension is not going as far as it was

chrissy08

I’m awake so don’t need to copy & paste. If you aren’t aware of who is pulling the strings please research Agenda 30.

My research took me here: www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-agenda-2030-idUSKBN2AN2CQ

“Yet a story in today's FT shows that the rich are on a massive spending spree with the profits of one of their favourite companies soaring... Oddly enough the rich have managed to come through these crises even richer than they were when they started..”

Yes indeed, the very rich will have some kind of business interests and have put prices up to customers, when supplies are restricted they can do that and so it goes on

choughdancer

chrissy08

I’m awake so don’t need to copy & paste. If you aren’t aware of who is pulling the strings please research Agenda 30.

My research took me here: www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-agenda-2030-idUSKBN2AN2CQ

Thanks for that. I'm afraid I couldn't even be bothered doing "research". It was so obviously bonkers.

Germanshepherdsmum

The Nazis might have been the National Socialist party but they were most certainly not left wing. Quite the opposite. Don’t be fooled by the word ‘Socialist’. Or by the word ‘Conservatism’.
There is very much a parallel between the growing unrest in the UK - and other countries - and that in 1930s Germany which brought the Nazis to power.

Some elements of Nazism would be considered socialist. For example, farmers to be owners of their land (not tenants), pensions to be raised, public industries (eg electricity and water) to be owned by the state.

It's misleading to think of politics as solely a left - right wing linear continuum.

Returning to the National Conservatism:A statement of principles, I read that the economic policy must serve the general welfare of the nation.
How?
Also where a country has a majority Christian population, that the bible holds sway so I thought… it’s easier for a rich man to pass through the eye of a needle than to enter the kingdom of heaven. Tends to knock out the billionaires?

Give to Caesar that which is Caesars, etc tends to imply fair payment of taxes and not complete ripoff?
Not too sure where this group is headed but certainly open to misunderstanding.

Katie59

There is no comparison to Germany in the 1930s, after the humiliation of WW1 the upper classes were vastly impoverished it only took a little Austrian corporal to ignite wholesale resentment of the way they were being treated.

Totally different in the UK today, it’s the older generation who own property control, the householders and business owners who want to see their hard work handed down to their family. Many of them (us) will say that the young, less fortunate should be helped more but in practice only help their own family.

National conservatism is the “haves” v “have nots” the problem is that a living wage is not a living wage, you cannot pay the rent and live, the only way to survive is with benefits and social housing and it shouldn’t be.

I don't know how you can even claim there is no comparison. I give up!

Incidentally, there were a number of rich Germans who profited greatly from the 1923 hyperinflation. For example, anybody with a bank loan or mortgage quite simply paid it off with worthless money. There was a huge amount of profiteering and black market trading.

National conservatism isn't just about the "haves" and "have nots", although people like Rees Mogg will enlist the help of resentful "have nots" to swell the numbers of supporters.

It's a culture war. The opponents are liberal thinkers, who believe in concepts such as equality. Hence, the attacks on those "woke" lefties who have been to university and dare to have relatively well-paid jobs and have gained some power. They might even usurp the power of those currently in control (how dare they?) It's easy to see why such attacks would appeal to the envy of those who don't have higher education.

ronib I don't know where the group is heading either, but there is no doubt that their ideas have been gaining traction over the last few years and they have been influencing mainstream political parties in the UK and in other countries, such as the US and Hungary.

Growstuff also in The Netherlands

The woke lefties are just as likely to retain wealth within their own families and their children will have all the advantages. Those are the exactly the virtue signalers that preach “woke” then do the opposite.

Any left wing movement has a problem, so many voters are now home owners, they are not going to vote for policies that stop them handing the fruits of their enterprise to the family.
There could of course be a violent socialist revolution that strips wealth from owners, thats not going to happen soon in the UK

Why do you think this is a left wing movement? Who are these woke lefties with wealth? Are we living on the same planet? Or are you one of the many who have difficulty distinguishing right and left?

Katie59

The woke lefties are just as likely to retain wealth within their own families and their children will have all the advantages. Those are the exactly the virtue signalers that preach “woke” then do the opposite.

Any left wing movement has a problem, so many voters are now home owners, they are not going to vote for policies that stop them handing the fruits of their enterprise to the family.
There could of course be a violent socialist revolution that strips wealth from owners, thats not going to happen soon in the UK

Not everybody is selfish, Katie59.

Katie59 - there is wealth... and wealth. Of course it is nice to pass on fruits one one's labour to next generation (and the one after, in our case)- but there should be a cap.

Woke lefties - why is it rude to call Tories Brexit Gamons, but OK to say 'woke lefties'?

I'm with Kathy Burke.

I'm proud to be a woke leftie.

Fleurpepper

Katie59 - there is wealth... and wealth. Of course it is nice to pass on fruits one one's labour to next generation (and the one after, in our case)- but there should be a cap.

Woke lefties - why is it rude to call Tories Brexit Gamons, but OK to say 'woke lefties'?

There is a cap, a couple is able to pass on nearly £1m before inheritance tax.

Woke Lefties - not my term but Volver is proud.

Germanshepherdsmum

Why do you think this is a left wing movement? Who are these woke lefties with wealth? Are we living on the same planet? Or are you one of the many who have difficulty distinguishing right and left?

Woke Lefties are the successful university graduates Growstuff mentions that get well paid jobs and are are preaching that wealth should be distributed more fairly, no doubt except for their own wealth.

Absolutely nobody pays more tax than is due, they may well leave part of their wealth to a favourite charity but they do not pay it back to the government to use as they wish

I’m very firmly on planet earth and I know almost all will look after their own family first perpetuating inequality. Maybe you are the exception.

Woke: alert to injustice and discrimination in society, especially racism;

Leftie: a subscriber to the range of political ideologies that support and seek to achieve social equality and egalitarianism;

Why wouldn't I be proud of that?

Its better than being a reactionary ultra conservative.

Isn't it funny that those reactionary ultra conservatives think that everybody thinks and behaves just like them? You know, selfish and thoughtless?

Katie59

Fleurpepper

Katie59 - there is wealth... and wealth. Of course it is nice to pass on fruits one one's labour to next generation (and the one after, in our case)- but there should be a cap.

Woke lefties - why is it rude to call Tories Brexit Gamons, but OK to say 'woke lefties'?

There is a cap, a couple is able to pass on nearly £1m before inheritance tax.

Woke Lefties - not my term but Volver is proud.

Yes, quite rightly so.

In reply to houseplant queen I voted leave the EU. Why well several reasons
Farmers being paid to leave fields empty
Only being allowed to sell so much and then having to buy from EU countries
Lots of control over our laws and regulations especially in industry. Not including health and safety most of which were very beneficial
Imigrant workers families being paid benefits for x number of children who were in their own country to top up their parent's income.
I remember the butter mountain and milk we were forced to destroy as we had to buy from EU and had reached our quota. Not even allowed to donate it free to poor families with children who couldn't afford milk and butter. Will never forgive them for that.
Too many unemployed UK people with no intention of working and playing the system while we were expoiting EU unskilled workers. This doesn't include genuine sick or disabled people BTW.

How exactly was the EU responsible for British workers being (allegedly) too lazy to work?

The rules on seeking work and unemployment benefit have always been a British responsibility.

PS. Good that you were so concerned about the exploitation of EU workers. Are you concerned about them now?

Germanshepherdsmum

Why do you think this is a left wing movement? Who are these woke lefties with wealth? Are we living on the same planet? Or are you one of the many who have difficulty distinguishing right and left?

Join me on Planet Zog! The weather's not too bad, but the food is rubbish!