I fear the rise of National Conservatism

To finish this discussion I have heard this group discussed on radio. Nobody I have heard indicates that political commentators are aware of any political danger. Iain Dale thought calling it the National Conservatism group was a bit dodgy like Nationalist Socialism , but pretty thin reasoning to me. I do not see them becoming influential and am not chilled about them.

Following on from Bravermans use of the Nazi anti-Semitic conspiracy theory “cultural Marxism” another Tory MP Miriam Cates, has stood up at the conference and used the term.

They are all vying to out-extreme each other.

A quote from the conference

Tory MP Danny Kruger tells NatCon that Western civilisation is threatened by a "new religion", a mix of "Marxism, narcissism and paganism", conforming to the "dystopian fantasy of John Lennon"

Blimey

I shall be very interested to see what happens at the conference but I strongly suspect that the reality of what the NCs stand for will be diluted to appeal to a UK audience. Their more radical views will not, I think, be aired unless journalists ask appropriate questions.

Well I was advised to watch this organisation. Iain Dale is investigating further. The Conference starts in London next Monday.
The DT has an article today about it and I think there a lot of Conservatives mulling over its aims. In the comments I smiled about preserving Christianity as in the opinion of one poster it does not seem to follow Jesus’s teachings!

Daisy Anne there is criticism of Nationalist policies and mentions the situation in Scotland and the future of the SNP. What is your opinion on Scottish Nationalism? I certainly have come to think that we need to watch what happens at this Conference

Are you advocating for the NCs?

This country is in a mess and the decline will continue unless we get a government which actually cares about Great Britain and its people. (I don't include Northern Ireland because I think it will soon leave the UK).

At present we don't have that. We need a new party with a fresh approach, which will put the interests of this country first.

DaisyAnne, thanks for posting the link. When I watched Years and Years on BBC1 I hadn;t realised it was set in the present

Nanna 8 thank you for your kind remarks. I do spend my days making calls to Costa Rica and Australia, but today my son has accepted the fact that he cannot leave the hospital until his oxygen levels improve as his lungs were damaged by being in the mountains for too long. It is very worrying as my other son and my daughter are his only close family.

Hope things get better for your son, Anniel. You are always going to get rude people but thankfully they seem to be in a minority on GN. Sometimes I think, possibly wrongly, that the autism spectrum is alive and well ! Anyway, don’t let them stop you posting, you make valuable contributions.

I have only bothered to come back to this discussion to see if it was still going on.

I am still dealing with worries over my elder son who has been in hospital in Costa Rica for 12 days. He is likely to return to Australia by air ambulance if things do not improve. Hard to deal with while I am so far away.
But now I feel quite angry. Not with the argument being discussed, but by Volver 3s habit of insulting people. She said I was speaking total nonsense and have noticed this kind of put down when anyone dares to disagree with her “Woke leftie” opinions. Just stop this type of insult Volver because next time it happens I intend to report the comment. It is rude and completely unnecessary. As this topic is not current maybe Volver will not see it. Too bad.

As regards the NCP it all sounds very Deep South USA to me. Southern Baptists. Nothing wrong with that in the USA but I can’t see it fitting in in the UK. Different sort of population, different backgrounds, different history. Just different wavelengths. The only danger might be if Keir Starmer gets in, makes an absolute hash of things and people react against his party and ideas, swinging hard right.

Maybe the agreement didn’t satisfy the Unionists, the rest of the Irish north and south are quite happy having the best of both systems.

varian

Our Brexit voting PM gave the game away when he acknowledged that Northern Ireland has a brilliant deal - exactly the same deal that we all had before he and his cronies voted Leave.

"Sunak: Northern Ireland in 'unbelievably special position' with access to EU and UK markets"

www.itv.com/news/2023-02-28/sunak-ni-in-unbelievably-special-position-with-access-to-eu-and-uk-markets

Quite unbelievable isn't it?

I'm a tad surprised a little irony-meter didn't ping in his brain when he came out with that!

Or that at some point, he didn't have one of those, "oh-hang-on-a-minute" moments.

Our Brexit voting PM gave the game away when he acknowledged that Northern Ireland has a brilliant deal - exactly the same deal that we all had before he and his cronies voted Leave.

"Sunak: Northern Ireland in 'unbelievably special position' with access to EU and UK markets"

www.itv.com/news/2023-02-28/sunak-ni-in-unbelievably-special-position-with-access-to-eu-and-uk-markets

choughdancer

Dickens

Grantanow

I think an increasing number of people believe leaving the EU was a bad mistake. Most Labour MPs and activists supported Remain. It was the Right wing of the Tory Party along with Farage, Tice and others including opportunists like Johnson who misled the Brexit supporters. We are now seeing a Fascist-like tendency in National Conservatism which reflects similar movements in the US and in European countries which bang the nationalism drum. 'Global Britain' is the same. The extreme Left and Right are very similar phenomena, attracting authoritarian personalities, taking racist positions and believing the ends justify the means. In Germany distributing bread quickly led to attacking Jews. We need to be careful.

I think an increasing number of people believe leaving the EU was a bad mistake.

But just how many, we'll never know for sure.

The biggest problem with Brexit now is that it's a taboo subject in terms of rational debate or general discussion. It can only 'legitimately' be mentioned when its advantages and opportunities are being promoted by either government or the largely right-wing media. Talking about it in any other context is regarded as "moaning", "bleating", and those who want to discuss it are, of course, "remoaners" who can't "get over it" and are simply "throwing their toys out of the pram".

In '75 when we joined, I remember endless discussions about the effects - not least the effect on the cost of living. It was inevitable because it was such a huge change to our economic, constitutional and political way of life. But here we are, in reverse, and Brexit - like Covid - has been filed away by a government who now want to "get on with the job" and "deliver" because it was the will-of-the-British-people.

So in such an environment, how do we know what people think?

Die-hard Brexiters are never going to admit that leaving was a mistake, regardless, and emphatic Remoaners like myself will never be convinced that it wasn't.

I'm not at all convinced that there's now overwhelming support for Remain. Honest, rational and frank debate on the issue at national level hasn't happened and won't. It's not in the government's interests to encourage such a debate. They have to make Brexit work - and Starmer knows he's on the same ticket.

I think much of the problem is that Remain is no longer available to the UK. The situation we had within the EU is not sitting waiting for us to decide to come back. Any re-joining would involve a far worse 'deal' for us.

I was, and still am, a passionate Remainer, and would vote to re-join, but am aware of the incredible body-blow that Brexit has inflicted on the UK, whether we remain out or re-join the EU.

I agree with you.

I wasn't thinking in terms of a re - join though. That is decades down the line - if it is ever even a possibility.

What I hate is the anti-EU - and eve anti Europe - sentiment emanating from this government. And the right wing media who are hyping it up.

The most I would ever hope for is a more cordial relationship with the EU.

But it seems we are getting ever close to the brutal Capitalism of the USA with it's desperate and glaring inequalities. We are attempting to cosy-up and exploit our so-called special relationship.

Then, there's this...
“My wife is Chinese. We want this to be one of the most successful countries in the world in 20, 30, 40 years’ time. There’s a pretty difficult question that we have to answer, which is essentially: are we going to be a country which is prepared to work hard in the way that Asian economies are prepared to work hard, in the way that Americans are prepared to work hard? And that is about creating a culture where work is at the heart of our success.”
JEREMY HUNT 2015

FWIW - and that's possibly not much, I believe that we are such an unequal and divided society with a huge wealth-gap, that many people were unable to appreciate or take advantage of the opportunities that our membership gave us. And those people were crucial to the Leave campaign and needed persuading that their economic woes were not, in fact, home-grown, but were the fault of us being in the EU... to put it simply and rather crudely. I don't believe for one minute that Brexit was for their benefit, but for the benefit of the most powerful, wealthy and influential individuals - like J Rees-Mogg, who were and would be less powerful in the union than outside of it. In short, I think it was a confidence-trick. Which is possibly why there are not many ordinary Brexit voters who can give any evidence of the tangible benefits of leaving.

Dickens

Grantanow

I think an increasing number of people believe leaving the EU was a bad mistake. Most Labour MPs and activists supported Remain. It was the Right wing of the Tory Party along with Farage, Tice and others including opportunists like Johnson who misled the Brexit supporters. We are now seeing a Fascist-like tendency in National Conservatism which reflects similar movements in the US and in European countries which bang the nationalism drum. 'Global Britain' is the same. The extreme Left and Right are very similar phenomena, attracting authoritarian personalities, taking racist positions and believing the ends justify the means. In Germany distributing bread quickly led to attacking Jews. We need to be careful.

I think an increasing number of people believe leaving the EU was a bad mistake.

But just how many, we'll never know for sure.

The biggest problem with Brexit now is that it's a taboo subject in terms of rational debate or general discussion. It can only 'legitimately' be mentioned when its advantages and opportunities are being promoted by either government or the largely right-wing media. Talking about it in any other context is regarded as "moaning", "bleating", and those who want to discuss it are, of course, "remoaners" who can't "get over it" and are simply "throwing their toys out of the pram".

In '75 when we joined, I remember endless discussions about the effects - not least the effect on the cost of living. It was inevitable because it was such a huge change to our economic, constitutional and political way of life. But here we are, in reverse, and Brexit - like Covid - has been filed away by a government who now want to "get on with the job" and "deliver" because it was the will-of-the-British-people.

So in such an environment, how do we know what people think?

Die-hard Brexiters are never going to admit that leaving was a mistake, regardless, and emphatic Remoaners like myself will never be convinced that it wasn't.

I'm not at all convinced that there's now overwhelming support for Remain. Honest, rational and frank debate on the issue at national level hasn't happened and won't. It's not in the government's interests to encourage such a debate. They have to make Brexit work - and Starmer knows he's on the same ticket.

I think much of the problem is that Remain is no longer available to the UK. The situation we had within the EU is not sitting waiting for us to decide to come back. Any re-joining would involve a far worse 'deal' for us.

I was, and still am, a passionate Remainer, and would vote to re-join, but am aware of the incredible body-blow that Brexit has inflicted on the UK, whether we remain out or re-join the EU.

Grantanow

I think an increasing number of people believe leaving the EU was a bad mistake. Most Labour MPs and activists supported Remain. It was the Right wing of the Tory Party along with Farage, Tice and others including opportunists like Johnson who misled the Brexit supporters. We are now seeing a Fascist-like tendency in National Conservatism which reflects similar movements in the US and in European countries which bang the nationalism drum. 'Global Britain' is the same. The extreme Left and Right are very similar phenomena, attracting authoritarian personalities, taking racist positions and believing the ends justify the means. In Germany distributing bread quickly led to attacking Jews. We need to be careful.

I think an increasing number of people believe leaving the EU was a bad mistake.

But just how many, we'll never know for sure.

The biggest problem with Brexit now is that it's a taboo subject in terms of rational debate or general discussion. It can only 'legitimately' be mentioned when its advantages and opportunities are being promoted by either government or the largely right-wing media. Talking about it in any other context is regarded as "moaning", "bleating", and those who want to discuss it are, of course, "remoaners" who can't "get over it" and are simply "throwing their toys out of the pram".

In '75 when we joined, I remember endless discussions about the effects - not least the effect on the cost of living. It was inevitable because it was such a huge change to our economic, constitutional and political way of life. But here we are, in reverse, and Brexit - like Covid - has been filed away by a government who now want to "get on with the job" and "deliver" because it was the will-of-the-British-people.

So in such an environment, how do we know what people think?

Die-hard Brexiters are never going to admit that leaving was a mistake, regardless, and emphatic Remoaners like myself will never be convinced that it wasn't.

I'm not at all convinced that there's now overwhelming support for Remain. Honest, rational and frank debate on the issue at national level hasn't happened and won't. It's not in the government's interests to encourage such a debate. They have to make Brexit work - and Starmer knows he's on the same ticket.

I think an increasing number of people believe leaving the EU was a bad mistake. Most Labour MPs and activists supported Remain. It was the Right wing of the Tory Party along with Farage, Tice and others including opportunists like Johnson who misled the Brexit supporters. We are now seeing a Fascist-like tendency in National Conservatism which reflects similar movements in the US and in European countries which bang the nationalism drum. 'Global Britain' is the same. The extreme Left and Right are very similar phenomena, attracting authoritarian personalities, taking racist positions and believing the ends justify the means. In Germany distributing bread quickly led to attacking Jews. We need to be careful.

Germanshepherdsmum

The trouble is, Fleurpepper, you use the word ‘many’ far too often and can never back up your assertions about ‘many people’. You know the same few names as the rest of us.

What makes you ‘pretty sure’ about people from other parties?

Because their values are totally alien to the other parties- but fir the right wing of the Tory Party and Vote Leave. It's quite simple really.

Wait and see. Perhaps I am wrong- I hope so.

The Labour Party has deselected Sam Tarry for supporting Jeremy Corbyn and Andrew Bridgen has been deselected from the Conservatives. So political parties do act for reasons I don’t always understand but in a fairly ruthless way.

The trouble is, Fleurpepper, you use the word ‘many’ far too often and can never back up your assertions about ‘many people’. You know the same few names as the rest of us.

What makes you ‘pretty sure’ about people from other parties?

Of course I don't have proof that many from the ERG and Vote Leave are part of this movement. I think most will be very discreet about it, at least for a while, and see how the future lies.

But we do know about Rees-Mogg, Gove and Braverman' all staunch ERG, and then Tice and Farage from Vote Leave ... allying themselves to fascists all over the world.

Will see how it develops. But I can put my hand on my heart and be pretty sure that there be none, or VERY few who will be dealt with pronto, from Labour- and none from Greens or Lib Dems.

Starmer isn’t a threat to the UK, he’s too smart, he knows that there is very little that can be done in reality, he will make the right noises, a give away here, a change there, if you expect big changes forget it.
He still has to balance the budget and maintain confidence of the finance markets, he will be about as radical as Blair was. Better than the Tories for sure IF he gets a working majority, don’t take that for granted, a hung Parliament could scupper everything

Freya5

Grany

See. The Labour Video Keir Starmer Doesn't Want you to See. From Double Down News on YouTube Conservative and Labour both want same things. Indistinguishable. America has a lot of influence in Britain with 12 thousand troops stationed here. Need change The establishment does not want change..So no change.

We have had American troops based here since the 2nd WW. Attended some of their parties with FS hubby. Lovely people.
Why,do you think they're here to take over?
My big fear is Starmer and Co in charge. More of a likely scenario than the NC.

Why do you fear Starmer?